Your thoughts on the banning of games and the laws that banned them.

[tp500]

Im sure this will get some good debate going. Everyone knows Jack Thompson. Complete dumbass. What is everyone's thoughts on states like California creating redundant laws to keep M rated games out of the hands of people under 17?

[darksora2323]

Games dont influence people. Nuff said

[BigFinger]

the rating is there for a reason just like film ratings... im not sure what laws California has placed on games but limiting games who have got themselves rated is no problem that i can see.

games may not influence the majority of people but as a parent/guardian of a minor (17yo is still a minor as far as i know) you have a right and an obligation not to expose your children to things you deem harmful after all you don't want a 7 year old playing a game that involved killing people by beating the to death with a large rubber cock do you.


slightly off topic.... jack Thomson is a complete twittering arsehole... if he wants to campaign against a worthwhile medium that has a proven track record of mind and behavior control and is steeped in violence, oppression, murder and genocide then he should have a pop at religion. people might actually thank him for that.



.

[hooray for zombies]

the rating is there for a reason just like film ratings... im not sure what laws California has placed on games but limiting games who have got themselves rated is no problem that i can see.

Yes, but an adult can bring a child to an R-rated movie if they think that their child is mature enough to deal with it, these kind of decisions should be made privately, rather than having other people telling them how to raise their kids.

[BigFinger]

Yes, but an adult can bring a child to an R-rated movie if they think that their child is mature enough to deal with it, these kind of decisions should be made privately, rather than having other people telling them how to raise their kids.

sorry.... i cant see the point you're trying to make there ?


.

[squerl]

I just feel sorry for the people in Germany.. I read on the Steam TF2 forums that instead of blood/gibs all they see is like screws/bolts when somebody explodes. LAME.. wonder what L4D will look like for them!

[hooray for zombies]

BigFinger
honestly, I think I misunderstood your post too, what I was saying was that by preventing minors from owning games, they are taking the decision away from the parents, and that it is in fact the parents decision to make

(I'm sorry if I don't make much sense, I'm sick as a dog right now and not at my most eloquent)

[BigFinger]

BigFinger
honestly, I think I misunderstood your post too, what I was saying was that by preventing minors from owning games, they are taking the decision away from the parents, and that it is in fact the parents decision to make

(I'm sorry if I don't make much sense, I'm sick as a dog right now and not at my most eloquent)


right i see.... thing is its a fine line between personal responsibility and nanny state/big brother.....but there are age limits on many things and for good reason driving,drinking,sex,voting,going to war etc etc games and video entertainment or all sorts are coming on in leaps and bounds in terms of realism and children should be limited in their access to certain genres and subjects.

by putting into place these controls they are actually combating people who want them banned by saying ... look you cant buy em till your 18 (or whatever)


.

[frogopus]

I just feel sorry for the people in Germany.. I read on the Steam TF2 forums that instead of blood/gibs all they see is like screws/bolts when somebody explodes. LAME.. wonder what L4D will look like for them!
Actually, I think that some games like L4D get banned in Germany. I doubt they could fix it up to make it acceptable.

But, it's the same way with nudity in the States.

[asu]

Actually, I think that some games like L4D get banned in Germany.
Lol, stupid politicians try to ban "violent" PC games in general. Only a few months ago a guy tryed to start a school shooting here in germany...he killed one student...HIMSELF!! (hahaha, what a loser XD)
But after this shit politicians started to jump in circles, claiming that games like (!)Counterstrike(!) cause children to become aggressive and psychopathic.
Their were like: "The police found violent PC games at Robert S. home; games that involve killing people. Similar games were found at the homes of the boys who started the Columbine shooting."
Well, after this logic pants would cause aggression too, because all those guys wore pants -.-

It is true that most games that come on the german market have disabled blood-, gore- and gibs-effects. However it takes only some minutes to download a bloodpatch or just change some settings on the installer. Also you could install the "english version" (what I do in general) which is usualy unchanged.

[KashMunni]

Games influencing people is one of the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Like if games invented violence pfft man there was violence way before the fuckin radio was invented it's not the games or the television it's the people around the person that makes them a sick bastard or a kind person. Watch Halloween you'll know what I mean.

[tp500]

In my media studies class in grade 11 last year I wrote a 2 page essay about how or how not violence in video games makes people violent in real life. Right now if you guys haven't heard, Mayor asshole, i mean Shwartzenagger ,i dont know the fackin spelling, is trying to put a ban on allowing people under 17 to buy M rated games. Yes this is the same guy that made Predator, Terminator, and many other violent movies. Its bullshit, it's total hipocrasy and I just think these little laws popping up here and there in the States are ridiculous. Ok so what you're saying is a 14 year old cant go and buy lets say gears of war or anything M rated. BUT, he can just as easily go to his parents and ask them to buy it. Law or not that kid's getting the game. The laws are a waster of time. Ultimately the parents should decide what their kids watch and play. Do we ban kids from reading violent books??

[Evilferret]

JFK Reloaded is Banned in america but like thousands of people downloaded it on the internet! Why should we ban games? They dont really influence you. If you ban games that is like banning school. You learn in games. Like Disaster Report and Raw Danger kinda teach you how to survive. Even M rated games. JFK Reloaded help u learn how he was assinated and dissproves myths. Some shooter games help you with aiming. They even help your brain. They make you solve puzzles and all the other things that you must solve to beat the game. Heck! I wathed Friday the 13th, Jason, Freddy, and all these horror moveis since I was 3. I played horror games when i was 4 like Resident Evil Directors cut! And look! I dont fight people, kill people, rape people, or be mean to people (Unless i hate u). Also games teach you how to have a family, and make money like the sims. And in some RP games teach you how to live a life when you are older. So this is why games shouldnt be banned.

[tp500]

I agree Evilferret, but they dont necessarily teach you that stuff. Shooters for example. Do we really need to be taught how to shoot? Wouldn't the world be much better off if know one knew how to shoot a gun? The JFK game isn't for a COMPLETELY accurate re-enactment of it. Some people are going to play and go, "look im killing a president!" But about a day after the Virgina Tech shooting, which Jack Thompson wasted NO time jumping all over like he did Columbine, the news went into how that CLINICALLY INSANE guy played doom and counter-strike to practice shooting. This was the guy that was in an institute for 2 years because he was mentally unstable. I played doom and counter-strike. Do I feel like shooting up a school? God no. It's messed up it really is.

[hooray for zombies]

and, honestly, if you play a video game to train yourself for anything, you are in for a serious disappointment.

[Shrubberyjsc]

DERK, Ima go play AA so I can lern teh killz peepel!

=D

[tp500]

lol and it really sickens me to see that the ONLY thing they use to back up their violence arguments is GTA its disgusting.

[dontleave]

Games dont influence people. Nuff said

Untrue, games don't influence ADULTS. It'd be safe to assume it don't influence teenagers too, but some kids... wow. Even an adult sometimes, but 99% wont go on a killing spree after playing GTA.

How quickly a child from 0-8 (maybe even 10) can pick up unappealing words and mannerisms is evidence enough. Like I say fuck once around my 2 year old sister I have to spend 6 hours trying to get it out of her head.

We need to make Rapture, but instead of on the bottom of the ocean it'll be built on the ruins of the late great Salt Lake City.

[tp500]

Like I say fuck once around my 2 year old sister I have to spend 6 hours trying to get it out of her head.

VERY TRUE! Touche mon ami, Touche indeed!

[dontleave]

VERY TRUE! Touche mon ami, Touche indeed!

Should also be noted, I didn't even fix the problem, just had to substitute the word. In this case I made her own name sound funny, so she goes around saying it.

Also note: My initial reaction might have been the thing that got her into it in the first place, so trying to replace it, you need to replicate the same reaction, in this case sort of shock and awe-ish.

SO, when she goes around screaming her own name into the faces of say my mom or dad, and she doesn't get the reaction, she used to revert back to the original word. She doesnt now-a-days but you know what I mean.

Now replace the fuck with a child who learns to kill people, and you have to substitute it with car theft.

Not a master psychologist by all means, but from my experience it sucks hard.

[hooray for zombies]

Also note: My initial reaction might have been the thing that got her into it in the first place, so trying to replace it, you need to replicate the same reaction, in this case sort of shock and awe-ish.

Reminds me of a funny story about my brother, one day when he was little, my mother was talking on the telephone. He was trying to get her attention but she wasn't listening, so he climbs up next to her, looks straight at her and says "fuckafuckafuckafuckafuck" (just how it's spelled) family stories are great

[KashMunni]

"fuckafuckafuckafuckafuck" (just how it's spelled) family stories are great

Lol?

[BigFinger]

is trying to put a ban on allowing people under 17 to buy M rated games. Yes this is the same guy that made Predator, and many other violent movies. Its bullshit, it's total hipocrasy and I just think these little laws popping up here and there in the States are ridiculous.

were those films age rated ? let me check.... uh huh yessum boss they were.... therefore no hypocrisy...

<div class="quote"><div class="quoting">Quoting: dontleave;]Untrue, games don't influence ADULTS. It'd be safe to assume it don't influence teenagers too, but some kids... wow. Even an adult sometimes, but 99% wont go on a killing spree after playing GTA.

How quickly a child from 0-8 (maybe even 10) can pick up unappealing words and mannerisms is evidence enough. Like I say fuck once around my 2 year old sister I have to spend 6 hours trying to get it out of her head.[/QUOTE]

QFT....


.

[Big_Bubbaloola]

I just feel sorry for the people in Germany.. I read on the Steam TF2 forums that instead of blood/gibs all they see is like screws/bolts when somebody explodes. LAME.. wonder what L4D will look like for them!

Well when RtCW came out, the devs had to produce a version of the game for the German market, toning down the blood and removing any and all references to the Nazis', swastikas and all. Way to deny your history there guys!

[Big_Bubbaloola]

Lets face facts here guys.

Regardless of what a child plays, watches on TV or cinema, or what sport he plays, there is gonna always be 1 kid in 100 who's not quite stable and will act upon his/her urges whatever you do.

These media outlets may, possibly, give them ideas. But they're already fucked up and would do something pretty nasty even if they were brought reading the Brothers Grimm (which is seriously screwed up anyway, have you read that shit recently!).

People have been trying to blame the worlds woes on something other than where the blame lies .............. themselves. Absent parenting skills have an awful lot to answer for.

[tp500]

were those films age rated ? let me check.... uh huh yessum boss they were.... therefore no hypocrisy...

But what I'm saying is a guy who made a career out of making a lot of violent movies is now trying to put a really dumb ban that ultimately will not keep violent games outta the hands of kids.

[kliziflip15]

The only way the game can influence somebody is by extensive gore/disgusting moments that someone can´t handle which can make you feel uncomfortable

BTW if they found FPS games at those killers, what if it was:

Violent kid who wanted killing people so he went to play CSS to relax himself but then parents forbid him to play CSS and he couldn´t stress out his anger so he went to kill.

Ever thought that games actualy helped that he didn´t do it before so the game actualy longered the killed ones life?

WHAT FOCKING RETARDS are those guys who ban games, they´d do more against drugs as even I can easily get them if I wanted to

[BigFinger]

But what I'm saying is a guy who made a career out of making a lot of violent movies is now trying to put a really dumb ban that ultimately will not keep violent games outta the hands of kids.

its NOT a ban.... its an age restriction out of the hands of children... which is perfectly reasonable and if the parents want to allow their children to plat that particular game then they can buy it for them.

The only way the game can influence somebody is by extensive gore/disgusting moments that someone can´t handle which can make you feel uncomfortable

BTW if they found FPS games at those killers, what if it was:

Violent kid who wanted killing people so he went to play CSS to relax himself but then parents forbid him to play CSS and he couldn´t stress out his anger so he went to kill.

Ever thought that games actualy helped that he didn´t do it before so the game actualy longered the killed ones life?

WHAT FOCKING RETARDS are those guys who ban games, they´d do more against drugs as even I can easily get them if I wanted to

on the subject of 'focking retards' ... they would be the people who make up words like 'longered' out would'nt they ;) seriously look at your post and edit it into something that make even the least sense.....


.

[sandollor]

Wouldn't the world be much better off if know one knew how to shoot a gun?

Are you serious? I don't even want to get started on why this is a horrible idea. If everyone knew how to operate and shoot a firearm less people would be scared of them and I believe less people would be harmed by them.

As far as people becoming more violent after video games/movies/books/music that in general is not correct. Two things are the basis of why people behave the way they do, this is basic psychology, a person's nature and nurture. Basically the way they are born, like heredity and what they get from the role of the dice or 'God'; and the way a person is raised. Not just their parents, but their environment too, this means friends, family, society, religion.

So to put much emphasis on the impact a game can have on an adult, something they'll spend at the most about 100 hours playing is pushing it into unbelievable status. A child on the other hand may be effected briefly, like when you were a kid and after watching Top Gun you wanted to be a fighter pilot or after watching the Karate Kid to play 'karate' with your younger brother. But to impact a child to the extreme that a lot of these people are saying it can, I don't thing so.

Having a guide like the MSRB is a good thing I think, but remember it's only a GUIDE for parents to help them those what they think their kids should be exposed to and what they can handle.

[Dead Fish]

Wouldn't the world be much better off if no one knew how to shoot a gun?

fix'd

[tp500]

Thanks Diabolic, didnt notice that!Are you serious? I don't even want to get started on why this is a horrible idea. If everyone knew how to operate and shoot a firearm less people would be scared of them and I believe less people would be harmed by them.


Are YOU serious??? That would not fuckin stop people from shooting up a school or killing people in gang violence, wars, or even regular homicides. I hope this isn't coming from a gun-loving American. Cause I wont even start to argue.

[sandollor]

I'm not saying it would stop all people from shooting others or from wars starting or from people getting their feelings hurt or anything that absolute. I'm saying LESS people. Not ALL people. I am an American, although I currently live in Germany, and I do happen to enjoy shooting firearms, what does this have to do with anything? There is nothing wrong with disagreeing, but my opinion stands. Check out these quotes and links. Do your own research so you can be informed.

&quot;Crimes are stopped with guns about five times as frequently as crimes are committed with guns.&quot; John Lott &quot;Gun Laws Can Be Dangerous, Too&quot; Wall Street Journal, May 12, 1999 http://www.tsra.com/Lott22.htm

&quot;Analyzing county-level data for the entire United States from 1977 to 2000, we find annual reductions in murder rates between 1.5 and 2.3 percent for each additional year that a right-to-carry law is in effect. For the first five years that such a law is in effect, the total benefit from reduced crimes usually ranges between about $2 billion and $3 billion per year.&quot; Lott, John R., Plassmann, Florenz and Whitley, John E., Confirming More Guns, Less Crime, December 9, 2002 http://ssrn.com/abstract=372361

A gun is the most effective defense against rape. When women are armed with a gun or knife an attempted rape is 10 times less likely to be completed. U.S. Department of Justice, Law Enforcement Assistance Administration, Rape Victimization in 26 American Cities (1979), p. 31. http://www.gunowners.org/sk0802.htm and see also Guns Effective Defense Against Rape by Robert J. Wooley, MD http://www.tysknews.com/Depts/2nd_Amend/guns_again st_rape1.htm (http://www.tysknews.com/Depts/2nd_Amend/guns_against_rape1.htm)

University Study Confirms
Private Firearms
Stop Crime 2.5 Million Times Each Year
By J. Neil Schulman
4-20-7
http://www.rense.com/general76/univ.htm

[tp500]

But what about cities like Detroit. I live in WIndsor right across from there, and everyday you hear about a murder caused by a firearm. The sad part is there was probably around 20 murders, they just tell you about a couple.

[snarkeater]

Before you think that guns=murder/rape/crime/bad, I would advise you to look at a small country, Switzerland. This country has some of the lowest crime rates in the world, and yet every male is required to own a weapon, and fire at least 25 rounds a year in the shooting range. http://www.stephenhalbrook.com/articles/guns-crime -swiss.html (http://www.stephenhalbrook.com/articles/guns-crime-swiss.html)

[sandollor]

It's so funny you should bring up the country of Switzerland. My family now lives in Germany compliments to the U.S. Army and we went on a trip to Switzerland two weeks ago. Our new car was broken into, my Canon SLR camera, and our Zune was stolen. Low crime? I wish the one car that gets broken into would not have been mine. On the plus side it's a beautiful country. Also, our insurance company will replace the window and the Zune, but not the $1500 camera and equipment.

[snarkeater]

Low does not equal none. I do try and feel your loss, but even in the places with the absolute lowest crime rates in the world, there is still crime.

[sandollor]

tp500, do you know any shady people? What I mean is do you know anybody that would steal from someone or break into a house or something like that? Steal a car or break into one? If you know a shady character ask them what they would fear the most or what would deter them from doing a crime. Now if there is one thing that is almost always a constant with criminals and what they fear, it's an armed citizen. Criminals look for the easy target, that's why police say don't be one.

&quot;But it is not just D.C. that has experienced increases in murder and violent crime after guns are banned. Chicago also experienced an increase after its ban in 1982. Island nations supposedly present ideal environments for gun control because it is relatively easy for them to control their borders, but countries such as Great Britain, Ireland, and Jamaica have experienced large increases in murder and violent crime after gun bans. For example, after handguns were banned in 1997, the number of deaths and injuries from gun crime in England and Wales increased 340 percent in the seven years from 1998 to 2005. Passing a gun ban simply doesn't mean that we are going to get guns away from criminals. The real problem is that if it is the law-abiding good citizens who obey these laws and not the criminals, criminals have less to fear and crime can go up.&quot; John R. Lott Jr http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,296724,00.html (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,296724,00.html)

[sandollor]

Sorry I hijacked this thread. Games should NOT be banned! Who's with me?

[The One]

JFK Reloaded is Banned in america but like thousands of people downloaded it on the internet! Why should we ban games? They dont really influence you. If you ban games that is like banning school. You learn in games. Like Disaster Report and Raw Danger kinda teach you how to survive. Even M rated games. JFK Reloaded help u learn how he was assinated and dissproves myths. Some shooter games help you with aiming. They even help your brain. They make you solve puzzles and all the other things that you must solve to beat the game. Heck! I wathed Friday the 13th, Jason, Freddy, and all these horror moveis since I was 3. I played horror games when i was 4 like Resident Evil Directors cut! And look! I dont fight people, kill people, rape people, or be mean to people (Unless i hate u). Also games teach you how to have a family, and make money like the sims. And in some RP games teach you how to live a life when you are older. So this is why games shouldnt be banned.
You just spent all this time explaining how games influence us.

[The One]

Look games dont get people violent. Its asshole jocks who make fun of people who they think are losers and transform them into psychopathic bastards. The only thing that a game might do is give the killers some nice &quot;Ideas&quot; on killing them, but it does not make them Want to kill them.

[dontleave]

Sorry I hijacked this thread. Games should NOT be banned! Who's with me?

Me... they should just enforce the Death penalty in every society, and not a pussy gas or electric chair shit... like... Saw... but for justice. Really its the only way people will think twice about committing a crime.

[Anti Zombie Task Force]

I was looking at thoughs studies they keep make and there inconclusive and some report even said it help people lose anger and speaking. As a kid i dont play game if there that bad really.

[Prometheus]

You're not going to learn how to shoot a gun from playing a game. Plain and simple. As for the motives in actually obtaining a firearm, learning how to use it properly and effeciently, and having the mindset to actually fulfill whatever task they've set out on, the game didn't do that. Some outside source has enabled that behavior.

Look games dont get people violent. Its asshole jocks who make fun of people who they think are losers and transform them into psychopathic bastards.

So, um...The One. You have a hard day at school today?

[Asura]

People kill people as long humans are in this world.
its a fact =O

Anyway games should not be banned.

[The One]

So, um...The One. You have a hard day at school today?
hahah I lold. Nah its a fact. Look at how many insane rampages there have been, some have been from those that others call &quot;Losers&quot; &quot;faggots&quot; &quot;ass munching Fuck Nuggets&quot; and so on. Those that make fun of them cause death.

And Asura is right, people killed people LONG LONG LONG before games were invented, and it will still happen as long as there are humans in this world.

[The One Froh Man]

I just feel sorry for the people in Germany.. I read on the Steam TF2 forums that instead of blood/gibs all they see is like screws/bolts when somebody explodes. LAME.. wonder what L4D will look like for them![/quote]
Well, it is possible to disable the content lock and get the full blood package by changing something in the registry. The program that does this can be found on the Steam Support page. I hope to fucking GOD that left4dead won´t be banned altogether!

Well when RtCW came out, the devs had to produce a version of the game for the German market, toning down the blood and removing any and all references to the Nazis', swastikas and all. Way to deny your history there guys!
Not correct, sorry.
The nazi references and swastikas were removed cause people fear that so-called neo-nazis (unfortunately we´ve got quite alot of them atm) might buy the game because of them or something like that.
It´s stupid imo, but I want to point out that Germans don´t deny their history (except if they´re fucktards).

[snarkeater]

I think banning games is dumb, simply because games are GAMES. Fun not seriousness. Games are not meant to be taken seriously for training, or any shit like that, and games aren't the only &quot;source&quot; of training anyways. There are all sorts of &quot;Hitman&quot; like movies out there. As far as parents having total and complete control over what their kids play, that won't change one thing. Yesterday, we had a garage sale, and we were selling some of our old PS2 games, like Devil May Cry 2 and Twisted Metal Black. This one lady comes up and buys both of them for her son, because they were rated M for &quot;... blood, gore, and violence, so [her] son should like these.&quot; As per my experience, most parents don't know shit about ratings or what kind of games their kids play, or honestly plain don't care.

[Shrubberyjsc]

As per my experience, most parents don't know shit about ratings or what kind of games their kids play, or honestly plain don't care.


QFT

What's next? Enacting laws where it's illegal to purchase an &quot;M&quot; game for a minor?

=O

[Big_Bubbaloola]

Quoting: Big_Bubbaloola

&quot;Well when RtCW came out, the devs had to produce a version of the game for the German market, toning down the blood and removing any and all references to the Nazis', swastikas and all. Way to deny your history there guys!&quot;


Not correct, sorry.
The nazi references and swastikas were removed cause people fear that so-called neo-nazis (unfortunately we´ve got quite alot of them atm) might buy the game because of them or something like that.
It´s stupid imo, but I want to point out that Germans don´t deny their history (except if they´re fucktards).


Fair enough, I stand corrected. I'd sit corrected if it wasn't for these damned piles *gets out small rubber ring*

[Shrubberyjsc]

damned piles

dude, TMI.

X(

[krunsh]

child who play a violent game wont become a psycho if the people he respect or listen to (should be the parents) help him to understand what he is doing... Fiction vs reality...

If a child isnt mature enough to watch Grindhouse or play condemned, then nis parents should be awared of that...

I agree that a 13 years old child should not be able to buy a porno movie or a realy violent game like manhunt without is parents... but older than that, it should be a decision made by the parents.

I learned a lot from movie and game from a very young age... I learned the differance between James Bond shooting a bad guys (wich could have made me think it wasnt so bad is I was a stupid child), and the captain hitting a poor farmer in the face in the movie ''pans labyrinth''... (that didnt look like a lot of fun to me)...

Stupide kid should be able to learn what is real war... not fiction war where its easy to say... I'll got there and kick some unamerican asses... (Or canadian for me)

Sorry for my english, and the long post...

[NERRRinator]

I think they shouldn't be banned since well think about a 10 year old doesn't have games like gears of war, CSS, halo, etc. then if they ever go up to a friend's house who has a game like this instead of playing it and not focusing too much on it they think &quot;holy crap i love this game! I have to find out more and get it myself!) which just leads to obsession.

[Tophernator]

I think they shouldn't be banned since well think about a 10 year old doesn't have games like gears of war, CSS, halo, etc. then if they ever go up to a friend's house who has a game like this instead of playing it and not focusing too much on it they think &quot;holy crap i love this game! I have to find out more and get it myself!) which just leads to obsession.

Huh?

[The One]

I think they shouldn't be banned since well think about a 10 year old doesn't have games like gears of war, CSS, halo, etc. then if they ever go up to a friend's house who has a game like this instead of playing it and not focusing too much on it they think &quot;holy crap i love this game! I have to find out more and get it myself!) which just leads to obsession.
Wtf did you just try to point out? :P

[Odds_Bodkins]

slightly off topic.... jack Thomson is a complete twittering arsehole... if he wants to campaign against a worthwhile medium that has a proven track record of mind and behavior control and is steeped in violence, oppression, murder and genocide then he should have a pop at religion. people might actually thank him for that.

Dognabbit Big - you stole my line!!!!

[Teknobry]

Our new car was broken into, my Canon SLR camera, and our Zune was stolen.

Sorry, but WTF were you doing leaving over $1500 worth of equipment inside a car? Its just asking for trouble.

Maybe its just where I'm from, but you don't leave anything of value at all inside a car, ever.
Cars are such easy targets for breaking into.

[sandollor]

Live and learn. It was in the Hotel parking garage that was 'protected'. Like I said, we will now never leave anything of value in our vehicles. Of course hindsight is 20/20.

[Teknobry]

My post came across slighly harsh, in an ideal world you should be able to leave your stuff locked in the car and not have to worry about it.
Was there no CCTV in the hotel carpark? Like you say, live and learn!

[BigFinger]

Of course hindsight is 20/20.

dont forget to metion the golf clubs in the boot when youre filling out the insurance form ;)

.

[Odds_Bodkins]

dont forget to metion the golf clubs in the boot when youre filling out the insurance form ;)
And the 42&quot; plasma TV

[dontleave]

Live and learn. It was in the Hotel parking garage that was 'protected'. Like I said, we will now never leave anything of value in our vehicles. Of course hindsight is 20/20.

Lawl, I piss my pants and run downstairs if I realize I left my shitty little 4GB Ipod in my car.

[Shrubberyjsc]

I piss my pants

I foresee this quoted and used against you in the near future.

[dontleave]

I shit my panties

I foresee this quoted and used against you in the near future.

[Shrubberyjsc]

touché!

=D