Separation of pc and xbox

[bedcommando]

Please avoid whining and talk of boycotts.
Does anyone else feel that valve should try harder to distance the pc and xbox versions of l4d?

I say this because after taking a step back and looking at the broad spectrum of things I honestly believe the xbox is holding development back on the game. I think valve is committed to releasing for both platforms equally which slows or delays some things, thus the poor intial release of custom maps and than the slow fix to make it useable. Even than they don't have direct server downloads like in other valve games.

I just think they need to separate the development more and I believe the xbox is partially the reason there's a l4d2. I'm not against it but what they've shown isn't a huge step above l4d just much more thought out. For pc it's more of an expansion but for xbox it only makes sense to release a whole new game.

Thoughts?

Ps please try to avoid yelling this sucks let's boycott or whine. I don't own an xbox so I wouldn't mind their view specifically.

[EClaris]

Is this L4D only or Valve Time gripes in general? Because with the Turtle Rock situation it could be looked at as separate issues

[bedcommando]

Is this L4D only or Valve Time gripes in general? Because with the Turtle Rock situation it could be looked at as separate issues



Haha yeah you can equate valve time into this but even for valve they're showing up very late for the party. But it's not just timing.

I wanna know if anyone else thinks valves attempt at making both the xbox and pc versions on par with each other is really hurting what the pc version could have been.

[CrAnKeDHigH]

Sorry but you need to slap yourself back to reality. Can you say the same thing about TF2? No you cant. If anything is holding back L4D, its the development of L4D2. And that has nothing to do with xbox. They have been planning L4D2 for some time now and ill bet any money we would see more L4D content if #2 wasnt coming out. So dont try to blame this on the xbox. They already said a million times that its too big and too much of a change to be an expansion pack so dont start acting like it could be one because thats just a boat load of fail on your part.

[BlackCat]

Sorry but you need to slap yourself back to reality. Can you say the same thing about TF2? No you cant. If anything is holding back L4D, its the development of L4D2. And that has nothing to do with xbox. They have been planning L4D2 for some time now and ill bet any money we would see more L4D content if #2 wasnt coming out. So dont try to blame this on the xbox. They already said a million times that its too big and too much of a change to be an expansion pack so dont start acting like it could be one because thats just a boat load of fail on your part.

Actually I think he is partially on to something...

As far as TF2 Valve has said that they feel like they have screwed the 360 players over and they are trying to avoid that with L4D and L4D2. They are trying to keep them equal, thus slowing down the development of DLC for the PC, and when there is DLC it is going to cost the 360 players because of M$, as we are seeing with the announcement of the new DLC. With all of their ideas for L4D turning into L4D2, I do partially think that it is due to being fair to the 360 players in a way, but there's nothing wrong with trying to be fair to both platforms, M$ just needs to get on board with Valve's "entertainment as a service" ideology and everyone would be happy, but with M$... $$$>happy.

[Bloodshed269]

M$ just needs to get on board with Valve's "entertainment as a service" ideology and everyone would be happy

Oh, thank you, It has been awhile since I smiled that hard. (Would have laughed but, it is 3 am, dont wanna wake up the daywalkers.)

[BlackCat]

Oh, thank you, It has been awhile since I smiled that hard. (Would have laughed but, it is 3 am, dont wanna wake up the daywalkers.)

Yeah.. pretty much like I said.. M$=$$$>happy customers. I bet the thought of anything being free makes BG's skin crawl.

[Jesus123]

http://i545.photobucket.com/albums/hh390/smurf-jesus-turtle/Inb4lock-1.gif

[BlackCat]

Sorry but... I don't see a reason why it would get locked...

[Jesus123]

Sorry but... I don't see a reason why it would get locked...

Discussion just between the 360 and PC version is just asking for a console war. It's inevitable,

[BlackCat]

Discussion just between the 360 and PC version is just asking for a console war. It's inevitable,

Ah... well this seems like something 360 users would agree with.. I mean as far as M$ getting on board with Valve, not the part about them being left in the dust as the OP basically indicated. Oh well... I should have brought some popcorn in that case! xD

[Steve Cloud]

http://i545.photobucket.com/albums/hh390/smurf-jesus-turtle/Inb4lock-1.gif

The guidelines specifically mentions that "inb4 the lock" is not to be used.

Don't do it anymore.

[CrAnKeDHigH]

Actually I think he is partially on to something...

As far as TF2 Valve has said that they feel like they have screwed the 360 players over and they are trying to avoid that with L4D and L4D2. They are trying to keep them equal, thus slowing down the development of DLC for the PC, and when there is DLC it is going to cost the 360 players because of M$, as we are seeing with the announcement of the new DLC. With all of their ideas for L4D turning into L4D2, I do partially think that it is due to being fair to the 360 players in a way, but there's nothing wrong with trying to be fair to both platforms, M$ just needs to get on board with Valve's "entertainment as a service" ideology and everyone would be happy, but with M$... $$$>happy.

The MAIN reason L4D is not getting content is because they are spending their time on L4D2. Just because valve says they "arent done with L4D" doesnt mean they are spending any real time on it. And they certainly arent keeping the two games "equal" across platforms. You guys get all the patches and fixes asap while we still sit here with a glitchy game.

You think valve is going to spend alot of time on a game they are developing that will net them $50-60 in november or alot of time on a game that they already were paid for and wont receive another nickel from except for from xbox owners?

[Stuffinator]

Damn you Steve that new avatar scares me somehow!

@Topic
Well I don't think that the xbox is the reason why the development of L4D-content is so slow! As you can see L4D2 is beeing released nearly one year after L4D and developing a game in one year with this much content for both Pc and Xbox (if it is as bug-free as I hope) shows how much effort valve can put into a project regardless of the system!

And btw. these days developing for pc or console isn't that different!

[yourbadmega]

so wait... are you saying that xbox is holding valve back from making custom maps and shit like that for the pc?

[nerVe]

so wait... are you saying that xbox is holding valve back from making custom maps and shit like that for the pc?

Essentially, yes, that's what he's saying. And I agree with it for the most part, but again, my views are that FPSs be made on PCs only, not consoles. That would make for many unhappy customers and one happy one (me).

[hunterhunter]

Essentially, yes, that's what he's saying. And I agree with it for the most part, but again, my views are that FPSs be made on PCs only, not consoles. That would make for many unhappy customers and one happy one (me).

:mad: Grrrrr....Then FUCK.....YOU...yes microsoft can be tight fisted but damn lay off not everything in life is free...one because there'd be no order,and FPS's on on pc...screw that,Thats just too much work,waiting, and money for me.

buy game,install game,check graphics card(or buy one) meet requirements,and all that other crap.

[OrangeCat X]

:mad: Grrrrr....and FPS's on on pc...screw that,Thats just too much work,waiting, and money for me.

buy game,install game,check graphics card(or buy one) meet requirements,and all that other crap.That's why I quit PCs, bought a 360, and later got a MAC.

[CrAnKeDHigH]

Essentially, yes, that's what he's saying. And I agree with it for the most part, but again, my views are that FPSs be made on PCs only, not consoles. That would make for many unhappy customers and one happy one (me).

Good luck with that one. Maybe I am wrong about this, but companies have to make more money selling to console owners than pc owners. There are so many people that have ps3's, xbox's and wii's than there are people who have pc's that are good enough to run these new games. Besides that, console games are already 20% more expensive.

[Easton Dark]

Essentially, yes, that's what he's saying. And I agree with it for the most part, but again, my views are that FPSs be made on PCs only, not consoles. That would make for many unhappy customers and one happy one (me).

I would think Consoles were made for FPS's, and PC's were made for strategy games that require precision in your commands.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm betting the OP is a PC, and he has L4D for PC.

Well, I do to.

But to discriminate against another system because they are denying your instant gratification is selfish.


Yeah, I to would like some new material to appear quicker, a new full campaign, new weapons, maybe even new skins for the SI, but come on. Xbox users want that to. And if you were an Xbox user you wouldn't have made this thread.

See, the majority of L4D players ARE PC, but considering the fact that to play L4D, Xbox users have to pay microsoft to get onto xbox live they should be the ones to get the content faster, not us PC people. It makes sense when you think about it.

Wouldn't Valve want their customers to get the most for their money out of It's games?

You see where I'm going with this, so I'll end it here.

Good day *tips hat*

[BlackCat]

The MAIN reason L4D is not getting content is because they are spending their time on L4D2. Just because valve says they "arent done with L4D" doesnt mean they are spending any real time on it. And they certainly arent keeping the two games "equal" across platforms. You guys get all the patches and fixes asap while we still sit here with a glitchy game.

You think valve is going to spend alot of time on a game they are developing that will net them $50-60 in november or alot of time on a game that they already were paid for and wont receive another nickel from except for from xbox owners?

You obviously didn't understand all of what I was saying. I think L4D2, in part, can be credited to the 360 in an attempt to keep the 360 and PC more equal, they developed a separate game instead of having to jump through hoops to get M$ to allow that much DLC.


See, the majority of L4D players ARE PC

"I'm a L4D player, and I'm a PC." :p lol

[ThoughtThinking]

I Think that The L4D1 content is being held back because ofr L4D2 or because they have to go to M$ to put in DLC (For 360)
Personally i say this
"I would rather pay then dont have at all"
I mean seriously if i have to pay for the DLC i will pay!
I trust valve with mah money.

[BurningEskimo]

I think I head Valve was making Left 4 Dead 2 for the Xbox and maybe the PC because with the new director they cannot put it into DLC for the Xbox, according to what I read all of what we have seen would have been DLC but the new director demanded a new game.
I don't mind paying for a new game, I wanna see new weapons, characters (Go nick),
Weather changes(Fog), and uncommon infected. Please take my money Valve <3.

[seaniepoo]

I have fun with L4D and could care less if they didn't release anymore DLC for it at all. I do think it would be awesome if consoles didn't exist, but that would make expenses on PC go up because of more demand. It would be more inconvenient for us. So thank whatever deity you worship for consoles. As long as they keep things cheap for us and don't make developers stop developing for PC, I am glad they exist.

[CrAnKeDHigH]

You obviously didn't understand all of what I was saying. I think L4D2, in part, can be credited to the 360 in an attempt to keep the 360 and PC more equal, they developed a separate game instead of having to jump through hoops to get M$ to allow that much DLC.

No I dont think I did misunderstand. Valve has already stated that it was too much content to make it DLC period. Not because it is for both platforms. There is just too much of a change in the game to have attempted to make it DLC. Even if there was no xbox, it still would have been a new game.

[yourbadmega]

I would think Consoles were made for FPS's, and PC's were made for strategy games that require precision in your commands.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm betting the OP is a PC, and he has L4D for PC.

Well, I do to.

But to discriminate against another system because they are denying your instant gratification is selfish.


Yeah, I to would like some new material to appear quicker, a new full campaign, new weapons, maybe even new skins for the SI, but come on. Xbox users want that to. And if you were an Xbox user you wouldn't have made this thread.

See, the majority of L4D players ARE PC, but considering the fact that to play L4D, Xbox users have to pay microsoft to get onto xbox live they should be the ones to get the content faster, not us PC people. It makes sense when you think about it.

Wouldn't Valve want their customers to get the most for their money out of It's games?

You see where I'm going with this, so I'll end it here.

Good day *tips hat*

thank you for showing my side of the arguement.

[Crack5800]

Just play on your respected consoles/pc rigs and be happy...

nuff said'

kthnxsbaiyall

[BlackCat]

No I dont think I did misunderstand. Valve has already stated that it was too much content to make it DLC period. Not because it is for both platforms. There is just too much of a change in the game to have attempted to make it DLC. Even if there was no xbox, it still would have been a new game.

No shit. You're preaching to the choir...

It was just a thought, stop trying to argue.

[Grieverlionhart]

Well unless someone here actually works for Valve then, we'll never know

[bedcommando]

Well I'm glad some people stayed on topic. I'm not trying to create a flame war of console vs pc even if some mention of it was inevitable by some.

I hate to fan the fire off topic but from a programming pov there hasn't been enough show of l4d2 to overwhelm me to believe there needs to be a whole new game. Although I welcome new content and will most likely purchase it because I can afford too.

On topic too clarify I belive valve is developing the game with xbox users in mind thus the slow output. As the xbox platform and marketing is much different and would involve a ms relationship. Because of this I think it draws back on the pc not being able to branch off and do it's own thing. Kind of like they through it on a leash. Plus any large differences would alienate xbox players and piss off part of the market base.

And yes I recognize l4d2 is probably slowing updates because they gave a release date on an unfinished game so you need to focus resources and silence critics to prevent the I told you so backlash!

Ps iPod touch is terrible to type this much on

[Crack5800]

Dammit I'm tired of seeing how people think this IS NOT AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT GAME!?!

If we want to look at games that basically have the EXACT same format/style...*cough*Halo* cough *Gears of War cough* cough EVERY OTHER FPS!?!?!?!

Really...with the same core gameplay from L4D1....they tack on...NEW SI, NEW common infected, NEW gameplay mechanics, NEW level designs, LONGER levels....blah blah blah..the list goes on....

And to think that the XBoX development slows down development or output is pure fanboy bullshit (imo) If a game company can create these games they make today or content for them they can sure as hell create them for whatever console they please in a timely manner IF they wish to. Valve has a reputation for not being a very "timely" game company you know??

Just because the PC is not getting their share of new content, doesn't mean you have to start crying saying "OH XBOX IS SLOWING IT DOWN, WE CANT GET ANYTHING NEW!" Well just to inform you we XBoX owners are in the same damn boat you are...so GET OVER IT...not the consoles fault...it's the game company(s) and M$ for delays and slow progression to release new content...

/end rant for now.....

[CrAnKeDHigH]

Well apparently the OP is delusion, because he is one of those people that feel like the game could have been simple DLC. Thats not so and Valve has said that from the beginning. So, if your basing your entire OP on that, then you are wrong and should just give it up.

[Grieverlionhart]

I wonder how the boy cotters would feel if l4d3 was announced before l4d2 even comes out. Now there are zombie animals! Vehicles and an all new capture the flag mode pitting 10 vs 10 between survivors and infected! And an all new AI director too big for DLC can now take a form of itself in the game and immediatly incap both surivor and infected teams

. . . actually that'd be weird having incapped infected and other infected need to pick them up. However survivors can't kill the incapped :S

[yourbadmega]

Well apparently the OP is delusion, because he is one of those people that feel like the game could have been simple DLC. Thats not so and Valve has said that from the beginning. So, if your basing your entire OP on that, then you are wrong and should just give it up.

just give up, the OP is a pc fanboy and can give less of a shit about us xbox owners so all we could do is tell him to choke on cock and die and he can just sit there and whine about it but in the end we all get the same basic shit. You PCers shouldn't be whining because you can at least make your own shit. We have to pay (even if it's cheap, thanks valve) for map packs while you can just use hammer to make your own maps. Just cry some moar because no one will side with you. It's just another console war.

[bedcommando]

Haha cracks5800 you need to calm down dude. I'm not a fanboy I said at the begining I wanted an xbox perspective on things because I don't know what was released to you guys. I'm not bashing your system or blaming it for problems. From my understanding valve treats both equally and tries to release for both equally. Which is the catch. Let me break it down.

Is valve not primarily a pc developer?
Would it not make sense that valve may have a routine of developing for the pc than taking a step back and looking at how they can put what they created on xbox?
Would it be more difficult releasing content for the xbox because of harddrive space issues and microsoft not into freebies?
In essence does valve take a stand themself as not to allow one game to get to advanced of the other?

The last question we may never know but it's the purpose ofthis topic to see what people think.

Ps I never said l4d2 should be free content and I've stated from the videos it doesn't look like a whole new games. Specifically the videos. There's still lots more we haven't seen that they said is coming. I'm basing what I said on the hands on actual game play not word of mouth.

[SickDaza]

Well man we have had two or three glitch fixes and the Survival pack in the nine months since the game was released. Whereas from what I understand the PC version gets updates and fixes much quicker, so yeah Valve tries to treat both equally but the PC version, IMO, has the upper hand.

And to answer some of your questions, the only difficulty in releasing content is dealing with M$, hard drive space is of no concern to people that have a pro or elite 360.

And who said that Valve was primarily a PC developer?

[bedcommando]

Once again this is not one system is better than the other this is not a cry for free stuff. This is taking a deeper look into development mechanics and asking for the opinons of a community.

[yourbadmega]

TBH i think valve caters to pcers because of steam and it's easier to update, when we get updates, it's just a giant one that fixes most of the problems that are known.

[Platypus]

from what I understand the PC version gets updates and fixes much quicker.

Steam allows Valve to update the game as soon as the patch is done and tested, while they have to ship the update to microsoft for approval, so it's fair to say xboxers do get the blunt end of the stick.

And who said that Valve was primarily a PC developer?
Considering the fact that all their games up until the 360 and PS3 version of the Orange Box where PC only, then one would assume they were 'primarily a PC developer'.

Yes, Valve should stick to what they know best, PC gaming. But with the economy in the state it is, and consoles continuing to consume the gaming market, who could blame Valve for wanting a slice of the money pie?

[SickDaza]

I think they were primarily a PC developer but now that consoles consume more than half the gaming marketplace, Valve needs to become equally a PC and a console developer to really succeed.

[Crack5800]

It is more difficult for people to spend money on a PC that is capable of handling most games that are released for PC's today. Consoles (such as the 360) are more accessible and cheaper for people to buy, plug up and play. Not to mention every year you basically have to upgrade your PC rig in order to keep up with the ever growing market that is PC Gaming due to visual and engine upgrades for games and as well as overall content for PC's as well.

So from a 360 gamer standpoint here is my view. I like to PC game..i really do (used to play WoW all time and a few other games) but as time passed and the market became more populated with games it became frustrating to have to upgrade my PC just so i could meet the standards of most games released. With my 360 i can play a majority of games that come out for the PC on my 360 for the price of the console initially...then whenever the game comes out the price for the game...(course I pre-order so i usually don't pay much). It's just annoying to see a PC person jump up and say, "Well because of 360 Valve is to slow to release anything, or Valve won't pay enough attention to us."

The above posts are right...Valve (as well as other Gaming companies) are having to transition to the mainstream of games and technology in order to receive profit. And no it's not because they are cash cows or money grubbers, but they have to find a way to stay in business don't they? They have regular employees too don't they, that they must pay and not to mention the technology they must buy and money they need to create or upgrade their current engines/technologies...

So it only makes sense that Valve works with the 360 like they have been doing...it's business...smart business...because it's just common sense...the console outnumbers the PC in most homes....you don't have to do any searching on Google for that...it's just common sense....

And as for L4D2...well...if you want to be a retard about it fine...but come Nov. 17th. i GUARANTEE you will go to your local gamestore, purchase it and play it...bottom line...as well as most of the stupid boycotters who say they WILL NOT purchase it...lies...

Now...i turn the floor to someone else.....

[BlackCat]

Not trying to be argumentative so don't take it that way but I'm just asking.. aren't the graphics settings on the 360 comparable to low settings on the PC, which most computers can actually run most games on low, even the cheap ass E-machines? (Without getting RROD! :p jk)

And as for L4D2...well...if you want to be a retard about it fine...but come Nov. 17th. i GUARANTEE you will go to your local gamestore, purchase it and play it...bottom line...as well as most of the stupid boycotters who say they WILL NOT purchase it...lies...


Yeah, I wish them luck in actually being able to pass it up in the store without even getting the urge to buy it. LOL

[darkmessiah]

Not trying to be argumentative so don't take it that way but I'm just asking.. aren't the graphics settings on the 360 comparable to low settings on the PC, which most computers can actually run most games on low, even the cheap ass E-machines? (Without getting RROD! :p jk)



Yeah, I wish them luck in actually being able to pass it up in the store without even getting the urge to buy it. LOL

E-Machines probably couldn't handle it, but YEP!

The 360 has a X1950xtx equivalent graphics card, still better than most integrated graphics cards cheaper computers has today.

BUT the 360 has a more advanced, though now behind processor, tri-core 3.2 GHz AMD I think.

[BlackCat]

E-Machines probably couldn't handle it, but YEP!


Was just the cheapest PC I could think of right away lol.

[darkmessiah]

Just because the PC is not getting their share of new content, doesn't mean you have to start crying saying "OH XBOX IS SLOWING IT DOWN, WE CANT GET ANYTHING NEW!" Well just to inform you we XBoX owners are in the same damn boat you are...so GET OVER IT...not the consoles fault...it's the game company(s) and M$ for delays and slow progression to release new content...

/end rant for now.....

Actually, I'd be happy to blame the 360 development for causing Left 4 Dead 2 be born, because if it wasn't the 360's fault, it would be Valve's for changing their business plan to the likes of the Madden franchise, and every popular EA and Activision franchise I know.

Madden '89, '90, '91, '92, '93, '94, '95, '96, '97, '98, '99, '00, '01, '02, '03, '04, '05, '06, '07, '08, '09, '10

[Crack5800]

Actually, I'd be happy to blame the 360 development for causing Left 4 Dead 2 be born, because if it wasn't the 360's fault, it would be Valve's for changing their business plan to the likes of the Madden franchise, and every popular EA and Activision franchise I know.

I really don't think Valve is doing that...i don't understand why everyone is thinking Valve is doing this...if it was they would add NOTHING NEW at all...like the Madden Games of EA...NOTHING is new except Rosters and maybe a bit of polish and shine here and there but that's it...

L4D 2 has updated graphics, engine, weapons, enemies, maps, longer maps, advanced A.I...and the list goes on...there making something that is completely different and stand alone....

so no...i don't think their trying to mimic the ways of EA other franchises

[darkmessiah]

Madden added little things, like new characters, fields, and some improvements each time. Madden franchise has updated their graphics, engine, AI, fields, background, and weather system, plus more game modes.

http://images.usatoday.com/life/_photos/2008/08/06/madden-oldx.jpg

http://www.brokencool.com/.a/6a010536846743970c0115701bc56f970b-800wi

My, is that an engine change from the last 20 years, eh?

Left 4 Dead 3 will do just as well with its changes.

But unlike Madden, those new weapons are skin and sound changes.

[BlackCat]

I really don't think Valve is doing that...i don't understand why everyone is thinking Valve is doing this...if it was they would add NOTHING NEW at all...like the Madden Games of EA...NOTHING is new except Rosters and maybe a bit of polish and shine here and there but that's it...

L4D 2 has updated graphics, engine, weapons, enemies, maps, longer maps, advanced A.I...and the list goes on...there making something that is completely different and stand alone....

so no...i don't think their trying to mimic the ways of EA other franchises

With things they have said about being fair to both 360 and PC after not updating TF2 equally for both, there is no denying that it is a distinct possibility that instead of using DLC to gradually change the game, it does make sense that, out of fairness, they would change it all at once and bring out a sequel, that way everyone gets the "updates" at the same time. This is not to say that L4D and L4D2 are the same game and nothing is being changed, it is actually the quite the opposite, a huge change all at once as opposed to slow changes over time as with TF2. I'm not at all saying that it shouldn't be done either, but in this case as well, actually the opposite.

[CrAnKeDHigH]

Madden added little things, like new characters, fields, and some improvements each time. Madden franchise has updated their graphics, engine, AI, fields, background, and weather system, plus more game modes.

Thats the worst analogy I have ever seen. Yes madden has updated all that over 20 YEARS. Valve is doing the same amount and more in ONE YEAR. Year to year they are damn near indistinguishable. So, comparing the two is just plain old stupid. And to anyone who thinks that Valve could have added all there is in L4D2 as DLC to L4D one, you are very shortsighted. Even if it could all be added as DLC, and thats a big if, why the fuck should valve spend all that time and money to keep adding on to a game and completely change it for free? Sure, they are doing it with TF2, but should they do that with every single game?

The OP and anyone who agrees with him need to stop whining and blaming the xbox. Get your enjoyment out of L4D and then buy and enjoy L4D2 like everyone else.

[BlackCat]

Thats the worst analogy I have ever seen. Yes madden has updated all that over 20 YEARS. Valve is doing the same amount and more in ONE YEAR. Year to year they are damn near indistinguishable. So, comparing the two is just plain old stupid. And to anyone who thinks that Valve could have added all there is in L4D2 as DLC to L4D one, you are very shortsighted. Even if it could all be added as DLC, and thats a big if, why the fuck should valve spend all that time and money to keep adding on to a game and completely change it for free? Sure, they are doing it with TF2, but should they do that with every single game?

The OP and anyone who agrees with him need to stop whining and blaming the xbox. Get your enjoyment out of L4D and then buy and enjoy L4D2 like everyone else.

Why the hostility, seriously. No one is whining, go drink a glass of ice water and chill the fuck out.

[yourbadmega]

i think this thread needs a lock. nao.

[Crack5800]

i think this thread needs a lock. nao.

I agree because apparently we 360 owners fuck everything up according the the guy who started this stupid thread....

[Icy Lemon]

http://www.craphound.com/images/xkcdwrongoninternet.jpg

Sums up alot of you guy's.

[CrAnKeDHigH]

No one is being hostile to you and there is someone whining, the OP.

Blaming xbox for Valve's slowness in releasing updates is just plain old stupid. Maybe the OP should go play the 100's of custom made maps that the pc community gets while us xbox users cant even get simple glitch fixes that the pc users had months ago.

EDIT: Icy Lemon: LOL

[Platypus]

and here I thought we could have an intelligent discussion...

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_bNe5vEJqMQU/SgxQT2qzeZI/AAAAAAAAAJs/zcC8VG1kaX0/s400/sad_face.jpg

[yourbadmega]

I agree because apparently we 360 owners fuck everything up according the the guy who started this stupid thread....

*adds declaritive statement to add gas on this console war in hopes of getting locked for having a console war in the first place.

[CrAnKeDHigH]

and here I thought we could have an intelligent discussion...

Yeah, it was probably taken too far.

However, I dont like the fact that everytime I play L4D, I play a game it still isnt patched properly and is a glitch infested game. Then I have to come on here and listen to some guy tell me the pc players are getting the shaft. Thats why this whole thread is just stupid. Its just a hot button for me because im sick of all the glitches.

[Platypus]

Yeah, it was probably taken too far.

However, I dont like the fact that everytime I play L4D, I play a game it still isnt patched properly and is a glitch infested game. Then I have to come on here and listen to some guy tell me the pc players are getting the shaft. Thats why this whole thread is just stupid. Its just a hot button for me because im sick of all the glitches.
I'm a PC gamer, but I can totally see that 360 people are getting the blunt of the stick, especially with bug fixes.

If the 360 did influence the decision to make L4D2, then so be it. Sure, it would have been nice to have had some of it as DLC, but new content is new content.

[one of them]

I don't even see what this argument has turned into.
The first half was alright, then it slowly started getting dumber by the post.

[yourbadmega]

I don't even see what this argument has turned into.
The first half was alright, then it slowly started getting dumber by the post.

welcome to the internet.

[darkmessiah]

I agree because apparently we 360 owners fuck everything up according the the guy who started this stupid thread....

I hope you guys did, or Valve will be getting a fistful of punch...FROM ME!

Teehee.

I just need a scapegoat so I can keep on lovin' Valve!

[Easton Dark]

Xbox users are gamers to, just like us, and they deserve the same level of support as PC players.

/thread

[Jesus123]

Discussion just between the 360 and PC version is just asking for a console war. It's inevitable,

Sorry to say but.....

http://i545.photobucket.com/albums/hh390/smurf-jesus-turtle/Epic_Win.gif

Had to take that Dark lol.

[darkmessiah]

And here we go...

TF2 didn't get the content onto the 360 first because of MAYBE the forcing of paid download, and the complete lack of hard drive space on most people's 360's...

Left 4 Dead 2 is only, ONLY coming out, because Valve's little Turtle Rock team they bought convinced Gabe to start making the game only days after the first Left 4 Dead. It was nothing to do with limited hard drive space. BUT because of how 360 users are comfortable with buying new multiplayer games every year, it would make sense that that would be a driving force in creating L4D2.

DAMN YOU JESUS!

[SickDaza]

I hope you guys did, or Valve will be getting a fistful of punch...FROM ME!


From a 12 year old girl? RUN VALVE RUN!

[bedcommando]

Lets be clear here, I'm not blaming the xbox for anything nor am I stating at any point the PC is a vastly superior gaming machine. I too dislike having to constantly upgrade to stay on track with the constantly changing pc gaming market. Consoles are great for providing 5+ years of consistent gaming. But thats all besides the point/topic if you want to argue that take it to another thread or PM. If you really don't have anything useful to contribute than don't, if the topic bugs you don't post! If this was against the rules the mods probably would have locked it, they seem to be very good and on top of things in this forum.

On topic...
I agree with a lot of people saying xbox is getting the short end of the stick in terms of development and free content. It'd be nice if more could be made available to them and I fear microsoft not wanting to give hand outs is a little wrench in the machine.
Some of you mentioned valve getting into the console market. I think thats a good strategy for them, they've got a very good pc reputation and now they're bridging and broadening their marketplace. Left 4 dead is probably they're first very very successful title. (*Note: they release half life for ps2, anyone remember that? probably not, 'nuff said about that attempt) team fortress 2 sold well but from what I've read in this thread wasn't treated equally with the pc version. Apprently the PC version received a lot of updates. Now if you compare that to what they're doing with left 4 dead would it be safe to assume valve is being more cautious about favouring one format over the other? In other words, learning and adapting? And yes I recognize what the pc version has received but I don't think its as drastic as the difference between xbox team fortress and pc team fortress.

Now heres where a lot will agree or disagree. L4D2 as it stands from a PC perspective with the gameplay footage looks more like a retail add on pack (yes paying for it) not a whole new game. If you throw an xbox in to the equation though, can you even make an add on disc for a system? I don't know if its ever been done before, but I assume since not everyone has a HD (hard drive) xbox it'd be foolish of valve to go that route. So this creates a what to do crescendo! Make an add on for PC and a new game for xbox? That would divide the community more than anything and probably piss off a lot of people wondering why they need to pay full retail. So I do see why l4d2 is needed for both platforms. So be it, as i said I'm purchasing it because i can afford to do so.

Also for the xbox users who wants updates, can anyone think of a way valve could get them that could avoid microsoft? Also how big are the HDs? i know the arcade doesn't come with one. Alot of the custom maps are 100mb. The game itself on my HD full patched today is just over 6gb, bigger than a single layer dvd. The install dvd (retail) unpatched is 6.37gb. so the updates haven't taken up much room, but we also have the advantage of deleting and writing over that which is not needed (during an update).

does anyone think that as they update the game for pc they should update the xbox retail? They do this with some pc games, change major golds as updates pile up over time.

Now from that whole statement I tried to carefully break down why I created this topic. To better understand and get input from others about how xbox could effect l4d and l4d2's development, because lets face it its a multi platform game. I don't care which platform people feel is better thats a matter of opinion. But does xbox not effect pc and vice versa?

[Easton Dark]

If you throw an xbox in to the equation though, can you even make an add on disc for a system? I don't know if its ever been done before, ?

Fallout 3's operation anchorage and the pitt "add on" disk.

[BlackCat]

Doesn't 'The Sims' have a lot of expansion packs?

[bedcommando]

Do expansion disks generally sell well on xbox? I don't think they do well on PC unless its for some massive online role playing thing. Just out of curiosity, also do you need a xbox harddrive to use them? If you do it'd be nice to see them bundle a hd with an expansion game or make up some kind of package to entice users into buying a hd for their xbox. Kinda like how nintendo had the rumble pack with star fox, although the rumble pak was more for shits and giggles.

[CrAnKeDHigH]

I say this because after taking a step back and looking at the broad spectrum of things I honestly believe the xbox is holding development back on the game.

Thoughts?



Lets be clear here, I'm not blaming the xbox for anything nor am I stating at any point the PC is a vastly superior gaming machine.


First you blame the xbox, then you dont? OK so which is it?


Do expansion disks generally sell well on xbox?


I dont remember ever seeing an expansion pack for any console game. I could be wrong though.

I think you dont know much about the xbox, how it works or the relationship between M$ and game developers. I also, dont think you realize how much of an actual change in the game there is going to be between L4D and L4D2. Just because it has four characters against SI in a FPS format (just like L4D), doesnt mean its the same or it could have easily been added on as DLC. Your just another one of those people who think this could have easily been an add-on/DLC and you want to blame the xbox for it.

[darkmessiah]

Some of the Rock Band games were expansions.

From a 12 year old girl? RUN VALVE RUN!

Hey, us girls can pack a punch!

[OrangeCat X]

A game company, to make money to be able to feed its employees and to continue business (especially in this economy), must be able to provide its product to as many consumers as possible. A pure PC game will not make as much money as a cross platform game. Just as a pure Xbox or PS3 exclusive game won't.

You can look at it like a money grab, (A company WANT'S to be profitable?!?!) but a company survives by making some coin and supporting the people who work for them.

It COULD be worse. L4D3: Now on PC, Xbox, PS3, PSP, DS and the Wii!!! :p

[darkmessiah]

Unless it's Halo.

[CrAnKeDHigH]

Some of the Rock Band games were expansions.


I dont think they were on a seperate disc were they? I know Rock Band has tons of DLC, but thats on the marketplace.

[darkmessiah]

Yeah, AC/DC, and others, but only a few discs were able to import into Rock Band 2.

[CrAnKeDHigH]

Oh OK, yeah I never really got into those games (Rock Band, GH.....)

[linkmelee1993]

List of console games that had add-on discs:

Fallout 3: A disc already out (Anchorage and Pitt) plus another (Broken Steel and Point Lookout) releasing later this month. They sell very well; but not as well as it would NORMALLY on marketplace via download. It's for people (like me) who have crappy internet or no internet. I still have dial-up, so I bought the add-on BUT downloaded the current other 2 at a friend's house... And they have bugs. See the issues?

Rock Band: Expansion pack #1 & #2. AC/DC Pack. They also said Beatles Rock Band will have an expansion via download and/or disc.

... Currently I can think of no other.

OT: I own XBOX, but I have played PC version for a few weeks as well on vacation and such. Basically, I found them both different:

PC: Graphically bea-utiful and smooth running. However... get a server with people you don't know, and next thing you know you're locked in a safe room with ten tanks, a witch, and you have seven players against you. VALVE probably has a hard time keeping up with all the exploits discovered. Younger and inexperienced players probably think that everytime something goes buggy, they have to report it and they sort through hundreds of these a day, maybe finding one REAL glitch a week.

XBOX LIVE: Filled with screaming kids and assholes. I should know, I've played 3 full matches, and have been kicked for ridiculous or just plain stupid reasons 23 times... And that's ONLY after I started counting. :( I think it does not run as good, but Valve has WAYYYY less to worry about with glitches, as people can't screw with it as much.

Basically, my useless walls above say one thing: It's neither platform/consoles/types/giant-boxes-of-metal-and-plastic-and-shit's fault. Valve is a business, and they do what they must and at the right time, even if we think it's wrong. They do what they are made to do, are told to do, and even choose to do sometimes, and we can't really help it. This thread is basically an excuse for immature people to start a "console war".

There's really no point. If you like a game, don't complain. We're all gamers, it's just companies pitting us against eachother for profit... Sony, Microsoft, different PC companies, Nintendo... Because it's their JOB. There's no point, we're all just people, gamers, enthusiasts.

So let's all get along, shall we? By the way...

You got a talk on peace from a 16 year old. I felt like gloating, now I go to bed. :)

[bedcommando]

First you blame the xbox, then you dont? OK so which is it?




I dont remember ever seeing an expansion pack for any console game. I could be wrong though.

I think you dont know much about the xbox, how it works or the relationship between M$ and game developers. I also, dont think you realize how much of an actual change in the game there is going to be between L4D and L4D2. Just because it has four characters against SI in a FPS format (just like L4D), doesnt mean its the same or it could have easily been added on as DLC. Your just another one of those people who think this could have easily been an add-on/DLC and you want to blame the xbox for it.

I believe xbox held back the pc development on the grounds valve was trying to make both platforms as equal as possible and in order to do so microsoft would have to be involved. The context of the other quote was me defending myself trying to say I don't think its a crappy system nor do i RAGE HATE on it for possibly slowing things down. As I said I'll purchase l4d2 regardless.

I said I don't know much about the xbox and asked for an xbox opinion repeatedly.

And I know enough about what I've seen (IN VIDEO) to know its not a huge massive difference. I believe it was you who stated a new game engine earlier, thats incorrect, its the same source engine (10 years old or so?) just tweaked as left 4 dead than sprinkled in with some AI 2.0. Some reskinned guns, new maps and a couple new zombies. Like I said THIS IS WHAT I'VE SEEN IN VIDEO. Thats not to take away there is a lot more on paper planned, but for me I need video, or it didn't happen.

So from what I've seen for PC specifically YES this could have been an add on pack. I'd say retail because I imagine to add randomization communication between the director and maps would take a fair bit of coding. So in essence yes I am one of those people that believes this SO FAR TO THIS DATE could have been an add on. I take pride in not being a sheep who follows the shepard and whatever he says. :D

[CrAnKeDHigH]

So from what I've seen for PC specifically YES this could have been an add on pack. I'd say retail because I imagine to add randomization communication between the director and maps would take a fair bit of coding. So in essence yes I am one of those people that believes this SO FAR TO THIS DATE could have been an add on. I take pride in not being a sheep who follows the shepard and whatever he says. :D

OK well there is the problem. You are one of the people who feel it should have been an add-on/DLC. You are certainly in the minority on that one, but hey, thats your opinion. Blaming the xbox is just a cop out. Direct your rage toward Valve and join the boycott group if you are going to get upset that you cant get all this stuff free instead of actually having to pay for it.

[bedcommando]

OK well there is the problem. You are one of the people who feel it should have been an add-on/DLC. You are certainly in the minority on that one, but hey, thats your opinion. Blaming the xbox is just a cop out. Direct your rage toward Valve and join the boycott group if you are going to get upset that you cant get all this stuff free instead of actually having to pay for it.

Did you not see the words add on, pc, and RETAIL? Not to mention I'm basing my opinion on game play footage we've seen this far? How is that boycott worthy especially when I mention I'm purchasing the game? Are you honestly this dense?

I like the xbox. But it does effect development. One version can get left behind or they can keep the field equal. Look at team fortress than look at l4d. You'll see what I mean. Thanks for responding.

[CrAnKeDHigH]

Did you not see the words add on, pc, and RETAIL? Not to mention I'm basing my opinion on game play footage we've seen this far? How is that boycott worthy especially when I mention I'm purchasing the game? Are you honestly this dense?

I like the xbox. But it does effect development. One version can get left behind or they can keep the field equal. Look at team fortress than look at l4d. You'll see what I mean. Thanks for responding.

Well, your opinion is that it could be an add-on. My opinion is it cant. Just because the game looks similar on gameplay footage doesnt mean it would be easy to make it into DLC. Valve has said as much, they stated it is too much of a change to simply make it DLC. What dont you understand about that?

And I mention the boycott group because that is one of their biggest gripes. They keep toting the line that it could be DLC and doesnt need to be a new game. Just because you say you are purchasing L4D2 doesnt mean you dont sound like the boycotters.

Obviously, we have a differing opinion on why L4D doesnt get updated very often. We both feel that L4D2 is the reason why L4D doesnt get a whole lot of love from Valve. The difference is, you think its because of the xbox.

Just a little FYI also: Even if you are 100% right about Valve making L4D2 because of the xbox, im happy about it. Us xbox players got a big shaft from Valve with TF2 and still continue to get ignored on any glitch fixes for L4D. I have already invested $120 dollars into two Valve games that get little to no love from Valve while you spent $100 for the same two god damn games and you get tons more content and patches. So quit crying and just enjoy the fact that they are releasing a nice, fun looking game in L4D2. At least you will get it for $10 cheaper. AND you will get more patches and updates than we will upon release of L4D2.

[hunterhunter]

well, your opinion is that it could be an add-on. My opinion is it cant. Just because the game looks similar on gameplay footage doesnt mean it would be easy to make it into dlc. Valve has said as much, they stated it is too much of a change to simply make it dlc. What dont you understand about that?

And i mention the boycott group because that is one of their biggest gripes. They keep toting the line that it could be dlc and doesnt need to be a new game. Just because you say you are purchasing l4d2 doesnt mean you dont sound like the boycotters.

Obviously, we have a differing opinion on why l4d doesnt get updated very often. We both feel that l4d2 is the reason why l4d doesnt get a whole lot of love from valve. The difference is, you think its because of the xbox.

Just a little fyi also: Even if you are 100% right about valve making l4d2 because of the xbox, im happy about it. Us xbox players got a big shaft from valve with tf2 and still continue to get ignored on any glitch fixes for l4d. I have already invested $120 dollars into two valve games that get little to no love from valve while you spent $100 for the same two god damn games and you get tons more content and patches. So quit crying and just enjoy the fact that they are releasing a nice, fun looking game in l4d2. At least you will get it for $10 cheaper. And you will get more patches and updates than we will upon release of l4d2.

thank you!

[Dre]

Well, your opinion is that it could be an add-on. My opinion is it cant. Just because the game looks similar on gameplay footage doesnt mean it would be easy to make it into DLC. Valve has said as much, they stated it is too much of a change to simply make it DLC. What dont you understand about that?

And I mention the boycott group because that is one of their biggest gripes. They keep toting the line that it could be DLC and doesnt need to be a new game. Just because you say you are purchasing L4D2 doesnt mean you dont sound like the boycotters.

Obviously, we have a differing opinion on why L4D doesnt get updated very often. We both feel that L4D2 is the reason why L4D doesnt get a whole lot of love from Valve. The difference is, you think its because of the xbox.

Just a little FYI also: Even if you are 100% right about Valve making L4D2 because of the xbox, im happy about it. Us xbox players got a big shaft from Valve with TF2 and still continue to get ignored on any glitch fixes for L4D. I have already invested $120 dollars into two Valve games that get little to no love from Valve while you spent $100 for the same two god damn games and you get tons more content and patches. So quit crying and just enjoy the fact that they are releasing a nice, fun looking game in L4D2. At least you will get it for $10 cheaper. AND you will get more patches and updates than we will upon release of L4D2.

this post just shitted all over the OP's thread.
he's 100% true though. we Do pay more and get a ALOT less. and im still happy with it, why not you???

[bedcommando]

Valve has said so, so it must be, no questions ever to be asked. Imagine what the world would be like if we never questioned?

Whats the boycott groups purpose? Have I not said even if it was an add on, it should be a RETAIL ADD ON. In other words for sale, purchaseable, paying moneys for kekeke. The only thing I share in common is that I don't think it should be a sequal. But I never claimed it should all come for free.

And I do feel bad you guys get shafted for updates etc, I really do. But isn't it ironic valve said the original game would have all this wonderful stuff so you went out and bought it and suddenly they're tune changed? Now your listening along to the new song as if it won't change either? Don't be afraid to question something, it won't hurt to use your own brain instead of a corporations.

As for this thread I'm done with it, the whole purpose has been missed several times, its so far off the tracks it hasn't been on topic since the first page. Partly my fault for letting someone steer me off course into mind numbing territory.

PS. I enjoy l4d1, will no doubt enjoy l4d2 and do expect content to keep coming out for the first game, as for how often and how much, who knows? I do know not to put all my eggs in one basket. Thanks.

[CrAnKeDHigH]

Whats the boycott groups purpose? Have I not said even if it was an add on, it should be a RETAIL ADD ON. In other words for sale, purchaseable, paying moneys for kekeke. The only thing I share in common is that I don't think it should be a sequal. But I never claimed it should all come for free.

Well, if you think it should be an expansion then whats the difference if its a new game or an expansion? What $15-20? Who gives a shit about that?

And who the fuck knows what the boycott groups purpose is? They are just a bunch of whiney, entitled children who arent changing a damn thing AND, when the game does come out, they are all going to buy it anyway.


And I do feel bad you guys get shafted for updates etc, I really do. But isn't it ironic valve said the original game would have all this wonderful stuff so you went out and bought it and suddenly they're tune changed? Now your listening along to the new song as if it won't change either? Don't be afraid to question something, it won't hurt to use your own brain instead of a corporations.

Well, Valve promised us TF2 content like 4 differenet times (and we still havent received any) and I wasnt promised anything before L4D was released. So, I dont really feel entitled to DLC. Sure it would nice, but I wasnt guaranteed that when I purchased the game. I got my money's worth from the game so I cant really complain too much. It really seems like everyone just feels like Valve will release games and then just keep giving their customers free shit forever and now the one time they dont, we get threads like this?

Also, I really resent you acting like im some kind of moron who totes the company line just because I happen to disagree with you. You can pretty much just fuck off if you want.

As for this thread I'm done with it, the whole purpose has been missed several times, its so far off the tracks it hasn't been on topic since the first page. Partly my fault for letting someone steer me off course into mind numbing territory.

Good, GTFO. If you feel like the point was missed and the thread got off track you either:

A) Just dont like to hear someone else's point of view. or,

B) Your original post was written so poorly that you didnt convey the message you were trying to get across in the first place.

[linkmelee1993]

...

Okay. So... Arguments. Also getting us nowhere. We're really not changing much either. Basically we can't do jack unless we pretty much do something drastic so...

This is kinda just quiet complaining behind Valve's back... :/

[darkmessiah]

Umm, that's what most people do in the world, have you ever seen The Last Supper?

It was about 5 ultra liberals (With Cameron Diaz) that tried to fight their old ways of just arguing amongst themselves and complaining about all the stuff conservatives are doing, and start killing off conservatives that won't change their mind about their ideals.

As the the actors said, all the ultra liberals did were complain but do nothing, and that's when they decided to kill conservatives, because they thought all republicans were Nazis!