Please don't criple the dual pistols!

[Pain]

Yes it's me again :)

bet some people now are starting to get fed up me and my posts of "outrageous" ideas and suggestions, heh :P

Oh well, I just hope I'll strike oil eventually..

But anyways! to the point:

I really hope and beg the devs not to cripple the dual pistols. "Cripple? What do you mean??" you might say :P

Well, I'm referring to the fact that you are holding two guns in your hands, and can only fire one gun at the time. I mean, come on, that's just ridicules! :P

You would be giving a much greater deal of pain if you fired both guns simultaneously, not to mention it would look and feel better too, like opening a can of whoop-ass on the infected! ;)

Of course, this would be a firing-option to the guns just like the Glock in CS, so that you can chose to fire the guns every other time, or to fire them at the same time. Whichever suits your character and playing style.. ;)

And on a side note, perhaps even making it so that the left mousebutton fires the left pistol and the right mousebutton fires the right gun. that way, you can fire your dual pistols any way you want! ^^

[Jim_Riley]

...

The dual pistols will work exactly how CS:S does.

Was that ever a problem? No.

[hool10]

You try and fire both pistols at the same time in real life! I never fired a gun (had a chance but I didn't want to...I was intimidated by it lol) but recoil in guns is really bad. Next your going to say the gun model should be sideways like a retarded gangster. You know you can't aim a gun accurately while it's sideways you know! :-p

[Puscifer]

...

bad idea, pistols are fine.

[asu]

right mousebutton = melee attack

[USS_Stud]

Firing dual... pistols... is.... HARD. Aside from the recoil, you can't aim. You might as well be shooting from the hip.

Which is why you gotta shoot 'em like Grave. Be careful not to shoot the other gun.

[Dead Fish]

It might sound like a good idea, BUT I think it's uncomfortable.

And on a side note, perhaps even making it so that the left mousebutton fires the left pistol and the right mousebutton fires the right gun. that way, you can fire your dual pistols any way you want! ^^

You should play BrainBread (a nice Half-Life 1 zombie mod), because there are akimbo Uzis which are fired exactly the same way. The thing is, that I never really utilize that feature, because it "feels" rather bad plus you have to reload each weapon seperately. That means, it makes more sense to empty one gun and then the other.

I personaly like the way CS does it with the Dual Elites, like a normal pistol with a much higher Rate of Fire.

[kyrickell]

If your concern is rate of fire, and not being fast enough.. just bind mousewheel to fire ;)

[Eddy_of_the_dead]

I personaly like the way CS does it with the Dual Elites
yeah
indeed

[The One]

Believe me, firing two pistols at the same time is hard. Like USS said, aside from the recoil its hard to aim. You might as well shoot with your eyes closed.

[Eddy_of_the_dead]

Believe me,
no i wound believe you

[Pain]

Believe me, firing two pistols at the same time is hard. Like USS said, aside from the recoil its hard to aim. You might as well shoot with your eyes closed.

You liar! :P you don't know squat, you're just saying things! :P

"When firing two guns, you want to make sure you fire them at the same time. that way the firing-recoil from one gun doesn't effect the aim of the other"

http://youtube.com/watch?v=yv0mm81qeig

http://youtube.com/watch?v=li3NsGQ8E7A&feature=rel ated (http://youtube.com/watch?v=li3NsGQ8E7A&feature=related)


(Yeah I know, the sounds isn't exactly great, and he also kinda looks a little creepy with that Morpheus-looking coat, but yeah.. :/ :P)

[The One]

You liar! :P you don't know squat, you're just saying things! :P
I WOULD know, I live in Utah, the only thing here is a bunch of hicks with guns and ranches. And one of my friends have a nice supply of Pistols for terrorism and rifles too. I'm suprised its even legal to have as many has he does.

Anyway, it is hard. I already know that you have to fire at the same time. But try keeping your arms and all still enough to aim right. And just as soon as you start squeezing the trigger your hand will do a quick jerking motion.

Noone ever said it was impossible, just HARD as hell and the chances of just anyone hitting what the want to hit are really slim. Maybe the old war vet can do it but I highly doubt that any of the others can. So dont call me a liar, this time YOU
assumed I said impossible when I said it was hard.




You my friend.........



FAIL

[Pain]

Okay, I'm getting mixed messenges from you now.. :s

First you say that firing two pistols at the same time isn't a good idea since it's hard to aim/hit?

Then you admit that firing two guns at the same time is the right technique if you are gonna use dual pistols? But at the same time making it sound like the current firing technique is "realistically" better, when it actually is not? And talking about "in real life this, and in real life that"

Dude! this is a game!! the survivors could probably fire a M249 machinegun in one hand and a AK-47 in the other while roller-skating on just one foot whiteout any trouble if the devs wanted to! :P

So yeah, YOU fail! ;)

[Dead Fish]

Dude! this is a game!! the survivors could probably fire a M249 machinegun in one hand and a AK-47 in the other while roller-skating on just one foot whiteout any trouble if the devs wanted to! :P


They could and I'd really like to see that. :P

[USS_Stud]

Try it in the arcades. It's just as hard.... if not easier...

[Shrubberyjsc]

...

bad idea, pistols are fine.

right mousebutton = melee attack

Sorry, I gotta side with the majority here.

[frogopus]

You would be giving a much greater deal of pain if you fired both guns simultaneously
Makes no sense, you just want a cosmetic difference :P

Firing at the same time would cut your rate of fire in half for double damage which is the same damage per second.

[asu]

frogo did the math, dont dare to argue with him o_O

[Puscifer]

aside from all thats been said...

FIRING BOTH GUNS AT THE SAME TIME WOULD LOOK SHIT!

[USS_Stud]

fired both guns simultaneously
Ugh... that's how they're fired in Gunz The Duel... it's so ugly.

[Pain]

it's cool, you do that Shrubberyjsc ^^

also, thank for quoting those people, now that you brought them to my attention I'll try to answer them as best as I can :)

To Jim_Riley:
Oh, you sound so confident, hope you are right too! :D ...or else you will turn out looking like an ass, god forbid ^^

Actually, I think I'm right when I say - Yes. Some people might thought that it was a slight problem crippling and limiting the potential and use of those dualies like that. You seriously think that in the whole wide word, I am the first one ever to raise this up as a problem, EVER???

... I'm sure they did it for balance-issues in CS anyways. But don't see how putting it in L4D is the same balance-issue as in CS


To Pusseh:
meh.. kinda agree with you there... I mean, I personally don't think it's a bad idea but I respect your opinion. And yes, there is nothing wrong with the dualies in Left 4 Dead, they work perfectly fine. I'm just saying - there is no need to cripple them, they pack a lot of potential when it comes to playing-style and game play. but yeah, whatever. it's good as it is, right?


To asu:
hehehe.. ouch, how did I miss that one?? silly me.. :P

oh well, no biggy, you can simply change the melee attack to something else, I guess :)




Oh and, Shrubberyjsc... I find you quite interesting. Seems to me like instead of thinking for yourself, creating your own opinion about something. you simply just look what other people say and then take their side, because they are the "majority", and you just wanna be in the winning team.

I think that speaks volumes about your character...

But, has it struck you that the "majority" that you mentioned only consists of 3 poeple? (and to be honest, the last one didn't even seem to have a problem with it, he was simply just pointing out that the right mousebutten is currently occupied by the melee attack)

I'll ask you this:
How many people are there in this forum? how many have read this post? over a 100.

Wow, look at that over 100 people read my post and didn't object, then I guess it automatically puts them on MY side since they obviously don't have problem with it or anything ;)

that makes it like what..? 100 vs 3

who is the winning team now, eh??? ;) :P

(hehe, nah, I'm just joking with you. you're probably right ^^ :P)

[frogopus]

. Seems to me like instead of thinking for yourself, creating your own opinion about something.

Lets not take things out of context to make a personal attack please.

[Shroom]

<div class="quote">
To Jim_Riley:
Oh, you sound so confident, hope you are right too! :D ...or else you will turn out looking like an ass, god forbid ^^ </div>

try watching some gameplay vids, they work exactly like cs:s
<div class="quote">
Actually, I think I'm right when I say - Yes. Some people might thought that it was a slight problem crippling and limiting the potential and use of those dualies like that. You seriously think that in the whole wide word, I am the first one ever to raise this up as a problem, EVER??? </div>

these people are? source/proof please, theyre probably all morons anyway so dont bother.


<div class="quote">
Oh and, Shrubberyjsc... I find you quite interesting. Seems to me like instead of thinking for yourself, creating your own opinion about something. you simply just look what other people say and then take their side, because they are the &quot;majority&quot;, and you just wanna be in the winning team.

I think that speaks volumes about your character... </div>

attacking someones character to prove your argument means you already FAIL.

<div class="quote">
Wow, look at that over 100 people read my post and didn't object, then I guess it automatically puts them on MY side since they obviously don't have problem with it or anything ;)
</div>

No theres already been enough stupid ideas that no one bothers objecting anymore. If the devs listened to all the stupid crap people like you come up with i wouldnt buy this game, its a source game you want your specific stuff MOD IT.


heres the door | | use it.

[USS_Stud]

...Don't bother buying L4D. It seems you wouldn't appreciate what it has to offer.

[asu]

Wow, look at that over 100 people read my post and didn't object, then I guess it automatically puts them on MY side since they obviously don't have problem with it or anything ;)
Or those people just took no side...not yours, not Shrubberyjsc´s... ;)

[Ydiss]

I'm all for not having both pistols firing at once but why do so many people have to come up with &quot;realism&quot; reasons why you can't do it?

You probably can't do a whole lot of things for real that the players can in L4D.

Realism ain't a reason for not having something in a computer game, particularly one that ain't realistic.

The first reply in this thread got it right: It works the same way as a tried-and-tested game that's insanely popular.

&quot;The dual pistols will work exactly how CS:S does.

Was that ever a problem? No.&quot;

Good enough for me!

[Shroom]

firing 2 at once doesent work well, look at GunZ its horrible. I dont care if its real or not it just looks dumb imo and feels slower.

[Shrubberyjsc]

Also, my post clearly shows that I have three heads, and hail from the planet Gamulon VI.

Yeah.

;)

Happy trolling.

[QuotidianTemerity]

Oh and, Shrubberyjsc... I find you quite interesting. Seems to me like instead of thinking for yourself, creating your own opinion about something. you simply just look what other people say and then take their side, because they are the &quot;majority&quot;, and you just wanna be in the winning team.

I think that speaks volumes about your character...

Congratulations, you're retarded!

[basic]

...Don't bother buying L4D. It seems you wouldn't appreciate what it has to offer.

heres the door | | use it.

you're retarded!

+1

PS. i think you'd have better luck here (http://www.steampowered.com/v/index.php?area=forums)

[tripp36]

ah..i thought the vid was rele cool shooting the pistols at diff times i mean looks like ur doing more and just who want to fire it at the same time? even the crow(1st movie)was crossing his arms in the gun fight at the rock club shot at diff times lol

[hooray for zombies]

I want to know when they put in a monkey character so you can triple-wield

[Srdmstr]

From a technical standpoint, personally I am able to fire two pistols simultaneously; however, it's rather pointless. Too much work for too little compensation.

[Pain]

frogo did the math, dont dare to argue with him o_O

Oh yes I do dare argue with him ;) You see, I can do math too, hehe :P


Makes no sense, you just want a cosmetic difference :P

Firing at the same time would cut your rate of fire in half for double damage which is the same damage per second.

YOU make no sense! :P

you're just pulling stuff out of thin air! hahaha :P seriously, &quot;Firing at the same time would cut your rate of fire in half&quot;??? :P and you know this how exactly..? ;)

Sorry to disappoint you but that's not true.

Can you fire a single gun with a single hand? Yes

Do you fire it with a single finger on the trigger? Yes

How fast can you fire the gun? Pretty Fast


Now, this is just for ONE gun in ONE hand. But why should this change if you were to switch to holding two guns instead? it still the same thing, one gun in one(each) hand, one finger on the trigger.

Tell me something, put out your arm in the air in front of you. just one arm. pretend like your holding a gun and squeeze the trigger as fast and rapidly as you can with your indexfinger. Now, put out both arms. squeeze the triggers simultaneously as fast and rapidly as you can. I bet you will be surprised over the fact that your &quot;rate of fire&quot; haven't been cut in half, in fact - it's still as fast as it was when you where only firing a single gun.

(boy, I really shouldn't have to explain this kind of stuff to you.. :s)


And why am I getting warned with &quot;personal attacks&quot; when I fairly was just pointing out a fact and said that I find it interesting, where's the personal attack in that? :s While some other calls me retarded and you just look the other way?

Why, you sure are one highly professional moderator, the best I've ever seen! ;) :P

I mean, he did say right there and then &quot;Sorry, I gotta side with the majority here.&quot;

that's like walking into a Team Deathmatch server where Red team is leading over the Blue one and go &quot;Sorry, I gotta side with the winning team here&quot;

he said nothing about &quot;Oh I completely agree! :D You took the words out of my mouth! that's what I thought, that's what I was gonna say! :D&quot;

But then again - why I'm I explaining this to you, you should have known this from the very beginning :s

(sorry frogopus, but the fact that you are a moderator does not scare me, even though I do realise you could have me banned for arguing with and criticising you :P but hey, as long as it's done in a calm and civilized manner it shouldn't be a problem, right? ;))

But yeah, enough said, I'll now leave you alone and move over to the rest.


For the one who called me retarded, I would like to say &quot;please grow up. and stop trolling. I actually got an IQ of 130 for your information, that's quite near Mensa level. let see how smart YOU are, eh? would be surprised if it is anything over 100.. :/&quot;
Proof: http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/7136/miniqkn4.j pg (http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/7136/miniqkn4.jpg)


And as for the rest of you, I'm giving up on this. you guys win. it's like a dead end. there is no convincing you no matter how logical the suggestions or solution is, still just keep saying No.

I made it clear that the suggestion was a firing option, exactly like the one the Glock has in CS and CS:S. meaning that if you don't want to fire both guns simultaneously, simply don't switch firing-mode on the guns. But it doesn't matter to you people, you still just keep saying No.

I tried to explain that it not the same thing, that it doesn't cut the firing speed in half or anything, just that it gives a bigger punch, that it deals a greater hit on the infected at the cost of using up your ammo slightly faster, that it gives a nice different playing-style for does who wish to use it...but &quot;no it sucks! NO!&quot;

You didn't even give so much of a reason to WHY you even didn't like it, just &quot;No, the guns will be like they always been, you fail, end of story&quot;

think about it, simply because YOU don't like it doesn't mean it's right to ruin it for other people who would have liked it. especially when it was introduced as an option to the able to satisfy both parts. But still.... &quot;No!&quot;



http://www.bubblare.se/movie/family_guy_stubborn_a s_a_mule (http://www.bubblare.se/movie/family_guy_stubborn_as_a_mule)

I rest my case...

[hooray for zombies]

And as for the rest of you, I'm giving up on this. you guys win. it's like a dead end. there is no convincing you no matter how logical the suggestions or solution is, still just keep saying No.

I made it clear that the suggestion was a firing option, exactly like the one the Glock has in CS and CS:S. meaning that if you don't want to fire both guns simultaneously, simply don't switch firing-mode on the guns. But it doesn't matter to you people, you still just keep saying No.

I tried to explain that it not the same thing, that it doesn't cut the firing speed in half or anything, just that it gives a bigger punch, that it deals a greater hit on the infected at the cost of using up your ammo slightly faster, that it gives a nice different playing-style for does who wish to use it...but &quot;no it sucks! NO!&quot;

You didn't even give so much of a reason to WHY you even didn't like it, just &quot;No, the guns will be like they always been, you fail, end of story&quot;

think about it, simply because YOU don't like it doesn't mean it's right to ruin it for other people who would have liked it. especially when it was introduced as an option to the able to satisfy both parts. But still.... &quot;No!&quot;

You could have done that without sounding like a petulant child who thinks his friends are stupid. It's comments like this that are getting you warned on personal attacks, moreover it's comments like this that detract from the profesionality of your arguments. I see you making some very good points, but the fact that you need to follow them up with a statement directed at the forum members as a whole really takes away from them and just encourages more of those &quot;You're a retard&quot; responses.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think you're a bad, immature person. I just think that you could have handled this with a bit more tact (and what do you expect from members of a forum dedicated to a game not yet released, there is going to be opposition to suggested changes)

I could see you becoming a valued member of the forum, or I could see you going the way of d_smid or d_cover and getting banned for making stupid mistakes. Again, I can see you going the first way far easier than the first, it's your choice as to where you want to be.

[Skeetles]

You have a bunch of people angry at you and you are arguing your intelligence over the internet. You are not smart.


...gee whiz, I wish I had test scores to prove it!

EDIT: you also spelled cripple wrong lol.

[The One]

You could have done that without sounding like a petulant child who thinks his friends are stupid. It's comments like this that are getting you warned on personal attacks, moreover it's comments like this that detract from the profesionality of your arguments. I see you making some very good points, but the fact that you need to follow them up with a statement directed at the forum members as a whole really takes away from them and just encourages more of those &quot;You're a retard&quot; responses.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think you're a bad, immature person. I just think that you could have handled this with a bit more tact (and what do you expect from members of a forum dedicated to a game not yet released, there is going to be opposition to suggested changes)

I could see you becoming a valued member of the forum, or I could see you going the way of d_smid or d_cover and getting banned for making stupid mistakes. Again, I can see you going the first way far easier than the first, it's your choice as to where you want to be.
I agree with Hooray, but to be honest for someone with an IQ of 130 you take your &quot;Situations&quot; like a child. Its opinion, if people dont like it they will say no. Noone said that because they dont like it the world has to be that way. You asked, what we thought. So we gave you a big fat ass NO cause we dont like it.
Opinion.
Get over it.

[The One]

Dude! this is a game!! the survivors could probably fire a M249 machinegun in one hand and a AK-47 in the other while roller-skating on just one foot whiteout any trouble if the devs wanted to! :P

So yeah, YOU fail! ;)
Yet you say that it would be more &quot;Realistic&quot; and fun that way with duels firing simultaneously or whatever the hell you said.

Yet you say I fail?

[The One]

Congratulations, you're retarded
5 points!

(Triple post and I know I'm posting from future posts to pasts.........)

[Armored_Zombie_Cow]

wow i hate u...
u really dont make any sense and your answers are childishly incorrect

[The One]

wow i hate u...
u really dont make any sense and your answers are childishly incorrect
:D 20 points!

[basic]

For the one who called me retarded, I would like to say &quot;please grow up. and stop trolling. I actually got an IQ of 130 for your information, that's quite near Mensa level. let see how smart YOU are, eh? would be surprised if it is anything over 100.. :/&quot;
Proof: http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/7136/miniqkn4.j pg pg (http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/7136/miniqkn4.jpg)


wait a second! that looks an awful lot like my free internet IQ test results (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a83uu38RWuE)!!!

[jaydig]

the reason i wouldn't want both pistols to fire together is because i would want more shots instead of more damage. the pistols fire pretty fast anyway, just doubleclick!
...And from a non gameplay perspective, to me it looks wierd. (Blood 2 = fail)
TRS prolly made the guns shoot like that because thats how its done in cowboy and John Woo movies.

[gorgoth]

This is the most retarded argument ever. Whoever started it needs to go to a nice place I like to call the death camp. TRS is making it so they do not fire at the same time. It looks better that way, and if you disagree, then either don't bother buying the game or accept that you are not the majority.

Also pain, your rate of fire would not be cut in half but your clip size would be. If you fire one then the other, you get two clips of ammo. In other words, you get to fire w/o reloading for twice as long, or you can fire one while reloading the other, effectively making you never having to reload. But mainly it looks a helluva lot better.

[Shrubberyjsc]

Don't stop arguing now, you're just about to win!

=D

[frogopus]

Pick up drum sticks. Drum sixteenth notes with one hand. Proceed to drum sixteenth notes at twice the tempo using two hands.

Also, you were called retarded after my comment about personal attacks and had I seen what it became I would have locked it.

I did not try to intimidate with my scary admin powers, I requested that your arguments be kept civil but instead you resort to a mix of passive aggressiveness and outright insults to other members.

Because you continued to take this whole little deal personally and turned everything into a flame war I'm locking the topic.