Smokers tongue

[Pain]

(The Smoker is the one with the long tongue, right?)

What if......

..not only does the tongue strap around your neck and drag you towards the smoker if it hits any part of your body. BUT, also, IF the tongue hits your weapon instead, the tongue rips it right out of your hands! forcing you to play with your pistol until you reach the next checkpoint and can pick up a new primary gun. eh? EH?? :D


bah, never mind..! you guys probably hate that idea... ;P

... I just thought it could be another interesting and fun tactic to use upon the survivors if you are gona play as the boss infected, but I dunno.

oh well, that was all.

[asu]

Kinda like the idea. Only problem I see is: What if a survivor has only 1 pistol (for example after he returns from a closet)?

[Pain]

Good question!


hmm...

well, the game is about real teamwork anyways, right? so how about one of the other survivors lends you his or hers one pistol or even their primary weapon to the one who is gun-less? :)

[frogopus]

how would the survivor counter the smoker's disarm attack?

[USS_Stud]

(Doesn't even read OP)

HERE WE GO AGAIN

[Pain]

how would the survivor counter the smoker's disarm attack?

How would survivors counter a flying car or a piece of concrete send by a tank?

How would survivors counter the vomit from the boomer, or even the explosion that he creates when he get's killed?

Or many other things that the different boss infected do..? You must realise, you can't stop everything from happening. nor should everything be available to be stopped/countered. or else the survivors would constantly be playing in some sort of God-mode.. :P

[Shrubberyjsc]

How would survivors counter a flying car or a piece of concrete send by a tank?

How would survivors counter the vomit from the boomer, or even the explosion that he creates when he get's killed?

Or many other things that the different boss infected do..? You must realise, you can't stop everything from happening. nor should everything be available to be stopped/countered. or else the survivors would constantly be playing in some sort of God-mode.. :P



Ok, here we go...

*flying car or a piece of concrete:

Dodge. I did it many, many times in the pillar room. (I think the hunter finally got me)

*counter the vomit from the boomer:

Did you watch my footage? I did exactly that with a melee swing.

*even the explosion that he creates:

Haha, the only counter to that is not being stupid.

For something to be balanced, there must be pros and cons.

You can't just say, "Now the survivors have RPG's!" or "The smoker can turn invulnerable for ten seconds every Wednesday at 1:23 PM!"

[squerl]

I think this is something they should consider. Right now all the Smoker does is go for the neck, but it could add some more depth to that boss if he could also aim for weapons.

Since the Survivor will always have a pistol no matter what, you could just have it so the Smoker can only aim at main weapons. This makes logical sense because the pistol is much smaller than the other weapons.

There'd be two ways to do it I think, either have it so the Smoker grabs the weapon and the weapon comes back to him, or you could have it just so that the force of the tongue knocks the weapon out of their hands so it falls somewhere nearby.

I think having the weapon come all the way back to the Smoker would be a little bit severe because they can attack from on top of buildings/places impossible for the Survivors to reach. If it was just knocking out the weapon, it'd be more fair.

Then you have to think of how much trouble implementing this would be, and would people ever actually use this attack instead of choking? I think if I were a smoker and about to pull somebody in from a horizontal angle (not choking), I'd want to disarm them first, then get their neck and bring them in so they can't blast me with a shotgun when they get in my face.

[Shrubberyjsc]

Huh!

I like just knocking it out of their hands, but I'd want there to be a cool-down.

Imagine the horror of all four survivors suddenly forced to switch to pistol.

o.O

[Gforcemember45]

they could always run real quick, only shooting when the zombies are the the way.

[squerl]

Yeah, guess it wouldn't be as easy to give a logical reason why a Smoker wouldn't be able to just hit all 4 Survivors up with the guns, and you wouldn't want that happening..

[frogopus]

I'm not sure if it would be too hard to implement squerl, jedi knights have been pulling weapons away from storm troopers for a long time.

Shrub covered a few examples of the ability for the player to avoid what you said. In most cases, the Survivor can either counter the attack on his own or the team can save him.

Smoker choke is countered by player or team mates, hunter pounce is the same, boomer vomit is countered with melee or team mates protecting the one vomited upon. Witch is countered through stealth. Tank is an exceptional situation. My concern is that a base ability of the standard boss infected could not be countered.

I like squerl's idea about knocking the gun down... with the reuse time on the tongue squerl, it'd be real hard to knock the gun away and then pull the Survivor at you before he gets the gun back. That means the Smoker needs to decide which option is better for the situation and the more depth to the character the better.

[Shrubberyjsc]

That means the Smoker needs to decide which option is better for the situation and the more depth to the character the better.

Yeah, I agree there.

I do remember that the devs have stated that their goals are to create a less steep learning curve for the survivors, and have the infected be the detailed/harder-to-master side.

And while this would add depth to the infected, I worry that it would be hard on newbies to suddenly have no main gun.

What if the poor survivor doesn't even notice his main gun is gone, and he goes up against a tank without it?

I just think it'd be another thing that newbies would be chastised for. They're already going to be scolded for the boomer and 'nades and such, it could make them look quite foolish to be running around with only their pistol.

[Pain]

No offence or anything Shrubberyjsc, but...

ehm, I don't think you REALLY can dodge one.. :/ I'm guessing that you didn't really dodge them, more like the Tank had very bad aim and missed all his shots. You ever seen The Matrix? now THAT'S dodging! :P haha.

Also, I don't think you can counter it by simply hitting the car or the piece of concrete with the melee-attack mid-air to send it flying somewhere else. Which simply means, they are no real way to counter the attacks of the Tank. Even when the tank isn't throwing stuff at you and simply just want to use his own hands to pwn you, I don't think there really is something that you can do to prevent it. When his knuckles are already coming down on you to beat you to a pulp it's not like you can grab his hand mid-air with your own hand, stair him directly in the eye and say "Don't think so pall! >;)" and then do a twist and break his arm off, hahaha :P (although, that would be funny to see :D)




Really?? you countered a boomers vomit-attack? so if a boomer pukes on you, you can hit the vomit mid-air and you send it flying in a whole other direction? Unbelievable! That's news to me... 8O

[krunsh]

Ok, here we go...

*flying car or a piece of concrete:

Dodge. I did it many, many times in the pillar room. (I think the hunter finally got me)

*counter the vomit from the boomer:

Did you watch my footage? I did exactly that with a melee swing.

*even the explosion that he creates:

Haha, the only counter to that is not being stupid.

For something to be balanced, there must be pros and cons.


well... dodge the tongue...

[dontleave]

You can't just say, "Now the survivors have RPG's!" or "The smoker can turn invulnerable for ten seconds every Wednesday at 1:23 PM!"

OMG NERF!

Tongue latches instantly, you might as well ask the infected to dodge a sniper round.

If this is ever implemented, I doubt, like a few have already expressed it's going to throw the gun all the way across the map. So if it indeed just makes the gun drop, to a location near by... Is somewhat, not severly handicapping ONE Survivor more effective than killing them? And in extrapolation the ultimate handicap, of not only being killed, but humiliated and hung up like a Human pinyata for everyone to take wacks on? The way I see it: Take the A gun from a Survivor, or take the Survivor from the team. Which is more usefull.

This is under in the impression that:
* There IS a cool down time, so I can't just TimeShift my way through all the Survivors and render them gun-less.
* The weapon doesn't fly into the air, over a building and into a dumpster at the finale, and that it only drops a couple of meters away.

I sure wouldn't use it unless it was a game of who can show off more. Can the Hunter get 5 consecutive wall jumps?! Omg that would be awesome, but near pointless!!!

Also, I don't think you can counter it by simply hitting the car or the piece of concrete with the melee-attack mid-air to send it flying somewhere else. Which simply means, they are no real way to counter the attacks of the Tank. Even when the tank isn't throwing stuff at you and simply just want to use his own hands to pwn you, I don't think there really is something that you can do to prevent it. When his knuckles are already coming down on you to beat you to a pulp it's not like you can grab his hand mid-air with your own hand, stair him directly in the eye and say "Don't think so pall! >;)" and then do a twist and break his arm off, hahaha :P (although, that would be funny to see :D)

His lack of speed IS your counter, with EVERYTHING he does. See, your comparison is like so:

"It's not like after getting shot you can take the bullet out of your head and use some bandages"

It's not like that, by a counter it can mean anything. And in cases with a Tank it's action, ie. moving, in general, in case of the Smoker its REaction, ie. wacking its tongue off a teammate. There's always something to do that wont completely compromise the balance of both sides. While the Hunter can pounce on a survivor and rought him up pretty bad, the other survivor can blow his head off.

With a tongue and a gun, they grab it, its gone. The end.

[hooray for zombies]

ehm, I don't think you REALLY can dodge one.. :/ I'm guessing that you didn't really dodge them, more like the Tank had very bad aim and missed all his shots. You ever seen The Matrix? now THAT'S dodging! :P haha.

Shrubs played. He dodged.

[boomers but crack]

Making it so bosses can snatch guns off you would probably get very annoying like having a really jammy awper in CS it gets old fast.

Saying that, knocking a gun out of some ones hands could be interesting or maybe the snatching thing if it had a low percentage chance of working rather than being an absolute.

But personally I would probably get annoyed with it.

[OBLITROX]

I think it would be sort'a stupid, because i dont think the infected or the smoker would have enough cognative thought to knock a weapon out of someones hands....I dont know though...

[dontleave]

Pfft.. And a Jawa would?

Don't argue based on fiction. It doesn't work.

[OBLITROX]

All im saying is that it would be stupid.

[dontleave]

All im saying is that it would be stupid.

Yes I know, and agree, but for the wrong reasons.

[Master_Bungle]

I agree with dontleave on this. Would you knock the gun out of their hands so they can pick it up again, or hang them... I would imagine it's a fairly obvious choice.
What if the smoker could lash at survivors with it's tongue so they are temporarily blinded? Much like the boomer's vomit blinds them, just not with blood... But with a tongue lash to the eyes! Again with a cool down and could only be used instead of the hang. That could be useful in various situations, especially with the reach of the tongue...

[dontleave]

I agree with dontleave on this. Would you knock the gun out of their hands so they can pick it up again, or hang them... I would imagine it's a fairly obvious choice.
What if the smoker could lash at survivors with it's tongue so they are temporarily blinded? Much like the boomer's vomit blinds them, just not with blood... But with a tongue lash to the eyes! Again with a cool down and could only be used instead of the hang. That could be useful in various situations, especially with the reach of the tongue...

And the Smoker can already blind people with it's smoke, what else do you want it to do? Steal Cyclops' visor?

[TheStrife]

And the Smoker can already blind people with it's smoke, what else do you want it to do? Steal Cyclops' visor?


lawl

ehm, I don't think you REALLY can dodge one.. :/ I'm guessing that you didn't really dodge them, more like the Tank had very bad aim and missed all his shots. You ever seen The Matrix? now THAT'S dodging! :P haha.

Uh, I think he would know better than you if you can dodge it or not seeing as how he's played it and you haven't.

[Master_Bungle]

And the Smoker can already blind people with it's smoke, what else do you want it to do? Steal Cyclops' visor?

Yeah it can blind people with smoke, but not from 50 ft (assuming that's the length of the smokers tongue?).
It wouldn't be overpowering as long as it had a cool down time and I think it would be a good alternative, as it gives the smoker an ability that doesn't have it standing in one spot until it dies (ie. hanging people with it's tongue).
So did you have a reason as to why you think it would be useless/overpowered or did you just want to shoot down suggestions for the fun of it?

Uh, I think he would know better than you if you can dodge it or not seeing as how he's played it and you haven't.

If you watch pretty much any of the videos with the tank in it then it should be pretty obvious that it can be dodged...

[TheStrife]

Yeah, I know that. I wasen't addressing you.

[OBLITROX]

Dontleave...thats stupid...lol

[dontleave]

I dont ever see this being usefull, OR practical. The tongue may as well be its primary mode of attack. The tongue is merely prehensile, and can grab things... It's not whipping around like Toad in X-Men 2.

[squerl]

We're not here to discuss who's a douche and who's not, just the idea - please stay on topic.

[dontleave]

As far as I can see we're just making silly suggestions for Infected that wouldn't ever become a reality, let alone considered by anyone serious. It barely seems you consider how this is for the Survivors. Although the Smoker would have to be infront of the survivors or near so for this to work (prehensile only) he could still be cloaked in shadow.

So I can be minding my own business, NO other zombies around, and suddenly go blind. Wtf? Even if you did see, within the split second the tongue coming at you, how is a BLIND person to tell the team where the smoker went or possibly is? All there is is a black line across the screen, and then your blind. Thats all. You merely snap at the survivor, retract, crouch down/back up... wait for recharge and repeat. The game isn't supposed to have super indepth years to master manuevers.

I can see this plentifully exploited throughout a match too, unless the Smoker conveniently runs out of rooftops, outsides and fronts.

How about a real suggestion like:










What if the Smoker can retract his tongue at will? That'd be more useful.

[Pain]

hmm... I'm listening to dontleave and Master_Bungle going, and something hit me;

How effective is the smoke-cloud that the Smoker produces really?

I know that L4D is not exactly like CS or CSS but... in CS/CSS the smoke grenade are almost never used by players, just flash bangs and HE grenades. You all noticed?

So I'm just asking; what is gona make the smoke-could so darn popular and effective in L4D when it never was it in CS??

And also, don't really think the smoke is there for blinding you... sure, it could... if you stood still in the middle of it, doing nothing!.... then yeah, you would be pretty "blind"....


But other then that.... yeah, I dunno.... :/

But I guess the smoke "CAN'T" be removed or changed to something else. "IT WOULD RUIN THE WHOLE GAME". Then you also had to change the name Smoker to something else, god forbid! :P

[Kenny]

How effective is the smoke-cloud that the Smoker produces really?

Well, after re-watching some of the videos it's like a super-dense smoke grenade from CS. You can't see through it at all it seems.

[dontleave]

Because it's usefull? What's going to make TRS replicate the smoke grenade in CS:S if it sucks? You assume to willingly that they'll screw it up. Have some damn optimism.

Anyway, CS:S isn't an atmospheric game, nor is it really realistic. It works in real life, just not in a video game where you run through the smoke guns blazing. It's only reinforced by the perpetual darkness that the L4D mapmakers are so fond of.

It servers a different purpose in L4D, probably like an Octopus/Squid and it's ink cloud. As a getaway option. And to make people cough. VIRAL ADVERTISEMENT FOR ROBATUSIN. Or however you spell it.

[Master_Bungle]

Yeah, I know that. I wasen't addressing you.
I know you weren't addressing me, I was simply backing up the point. Because to be fair, it is pretty obvious. I should have quoted him directly I suppose, not what you posted... Would have made more sense...

I dont ever see this being usefull, OR practical. The tongue may as well be its primary mode of attack. The tongue is merely prehensile, and can grab things...
Er, the tongue IS it's primary mode of attack is it not? To be honest even if what I suggested was implemented, people would probably still use it to hang survivors, because blinding them wouldn't do any damage.

It's not whipping around like Toad in X-Men 2
Why not? If it's tongue has the strength to pull survivors across a street, I'm sure it would have the strength (and accuracy) to hit them in the face and temporarily blind them or something. It's tongue could be all sticky... Keep their eyes shut for a while with stickiness... I dunno... Just a suggestion... :D

[squerl]

Yeah, like Master_Bungle said, if you can grab your tongue around somebody's neck, I'm sure you could manage to forcefully smack it against a weapon.

The main weapon of the Smoker is its tongue - the smoke was put in place because the name "Tonguer" was too weird.

I wouldn't consider the smoke a weapon, I'd say it's a defense mechanism. If you're going to kill the Smoker in a hallway with a rush of infected, you're going to pay the price. The smoke will limit your vision and you're going to get messed up more than usual.

[dontleave]

Er, the tongue IS it's primary mode of attack is it not? To be honest even if what I suggested was implemented, people would probably still use it to hang survivors, because blinding them wouldn't do any damage.

No, it's not. Or is it? Nevertheless, it's primary mode of attack is it's arms, which it swings around to slap survivors. The tongue is it's special. All the boss' have a melee which they use, and then a special. But in the case of a smoker it'd be comparing the sniper rifle to the pistol, so it kinda is it's primary mode of attack. I merely meant you're not going to stand on a roof top slamming MOUSE1 to tounge slap Bill in the face.

Why not? If it's tongue has the strength to pull survivors across a street, I'm sure it would have the strength (and accuracy) to hit them in the face and temporarily blind them or something. It's tongue could be all sticky... Keep their eyes shut for a while with stickiness... I dunno... Just a suggestion... :D

It's PREHENSILE, the Smoker doesn't have control over it like a $20 dollar hooker, the most it can do is wrap and retract. That said, I heard it had a limited auto lock or w/e onto a Survivors neck.

[Dead Fish]

After breathing in some smoke the Survivors will cough and be unable to use any voice commands. So.. no communication for some seconds.

[squerl]

When we played (a long ass time ago), there was almost no use at all for the melee attacks of the bosses. They didn't do much damage at all and were really just something to keep you occupied when you already used your special.

[dontleave]

When we played (a long ass time ago), there was almost no use at all for the melee attacks of the bosses. They didn't do much damage at all and were really just something to keep you occupied when you already used your special.

I donno... I'd like to give Zoey a slap in the face, among other places.

[Master_Bungle]

It's PREHENSILE, the Smoker doesn't have control over it like a $20 dollar hooker, the most it can do is wrap and retract.
I was under the impression it had very good control over it's tongue... If it has the accuracy to wrap it's tongue round someones neck from 50ft away, I would say it has pretty good control over it...
Anyway, going back to the blinding attack thing... When I said blind, I didn't mean black screen of doom for X seconds. That would be pretty unfair. I mean like a flash grenade or something to that effect. Perhaps a black screen that over 5-10 seconds slowly disappears to reveal what is actually going on (I think that makes sense...). What I mean is your vision would slowly come back over a short period of time, but long enough for the ability to not be useless. It would have to be good enough for people to question whether they want to hang a survivor or temporarily blind them.

I can see this plentifully exploited throughout a match too, unless the Smoker conveniently runs out of rooftops, outsides and fronts.
I see your point there. That is why I suggested a cool down time to use it again. If the blinding effect was short it surely wouldn't be game-breaking and it would have it's uses for the infected side.

As for the smokers ability to emit smoke at will, the best use I have seen for that is disguising the smokers exact position while it hangs a survivor.

[Master_Bungle]

Sorry to double post but...

I donno... I'd like to give Zoey a slap in the face, among other places.
Hehe, you have a point. :D

[dontleave]

I'd still like to latch onto a survivors leg and Robert Neville them. (Yes, like in the movie)

[Kenny]

Because it's usefull? What's going to make TRS replicate the smoke grenade in CS:S if it sucks? You assume to willingly that they'll screw it up. Have some damn optimism.

I think the CS:S smoke grenades are very useful.

[dontleave]

So do I.

[frogopus]

Late reply, but the smoke is also good for a combination with the boomer vomit or if you see a large group of infected about to attack the survivors in a tight area. The devs talked about setting a cloud and sitting in it while on a building waiting to choke and then pretending to set the cloud somewhere and hiding somewhere else to fake.

[ShadowSlayer7]

So that means we would be able to emit smoke on our own?

[frogopus]

So that means we would be able to emit smoke on our own?
I was able to release smoke with a push of a button as well as on death. If I remember correctly, you could only use your controllable smoke once per spawn but you always smoke on death.

[Stickgore]

If he could pull the gun it wud be cool but you should be able to like chase him down and kill him and take it back.

[Antman]

wouldnt you rather take out the survivor completely, then just taking him out of action for 5 - 10 seconds?

[Etheallmighty]

it could make them look quite foolish to be running around with only their pistol.

LOL I remember when I played my first runthrough with my friend at WCG....starting from the beginning of the scenario he DID NOT take s primary weapon.....

[Puscifer]

The main weapon of the Smoker is its tongue - the smoke was put in place because the name "Tonguer" was too weird.


How about Choker???

[Puscifer]

I was able to release smoke with a push of a button as well as on death. If I remember correctly, you could only use your controllable smoke once per spawn but you always smoke on death.


exactlly, come on ppl theres loads of things u could do. let a ploom somewhere then go to say an opposite roof, the survivours keeping there eyes on the ploom while u completely f**k them up from somewhere else...

let a ploom out on a cornour directlly infront of a horde, covering there path to the survivours...

try to gwt one 2 plooms out quite close to each other making it reeeally difficalt to see and have a good hance of splitting the survivours up..

apart from those, combing the smoker with the other boss infected asttacks is gonna be brilliant:P

[Armored_Zombie_Cow]

the main reason for the smoker being able to whip the gun out of the survivors' hands would be this:
if there was a giant horde of infected coming at them, and then the smoker did the act, then that one survivor would be screwed as the horde overwhelmed him/her as he/she had only a pistol...
so, smoker+horde+smoker gun whip= very useful.
otherwise, no, it is not useful.
there, i am surprised no1 thought of that...hmm
well as i was writing this, i thought of something else!
if there is a giant horde of infected surrounding the survivors and the smoker "shoots" his tongue at a survivor, and misses and hits an infected...well, i think that he should pull in the infected by accident and is not allowed to let go until the infected is dead from the strangle.
that would be interesting and would give the survivors an advantage if the smoker f***ed up

[Master_Bungle]

wouldnt you rather take out the survivor completely, then just taking him out of action for 5 - 10 seconds?
Well, you aren't guaranteed to take a survivor out completely with the hang... In fact most of the time the smoker is killed long before from what i have seen from videos etc.

if there was a giant horde of infected coming at them, and then the smoker did the act, then that one survivor would be screwed as the horde overwhelmed him/her as he/she had only a pistol...
so, smoker+horde+smoker gun whip= very useful.
Smoker+horde+blindness for 5-10 secs = very useful too, no?

[xxbl4ckxx]

douche
haha the vaganal cleening bag :p

Just messing.

That idea is a good idea but it would be better if he wips the gun about 20 to 30 feet and just like when u get throw up on u from the boomer all the zombies attack you. you would be gunless and all the zombies would attack you. hahah you better hope that u have good team. to helpyou