The Witch isn't scary anymore :(

[Cyanyde]

I just wanted to see how many people are completely un-afraid of the witch these days..

I killed a shitload of them tonight and every time it was simple as go up behind them and unload my shotty in the back of their head.. usually I kill her in one shot but even when I don't, she rarely gets time to react.

I haven't seen a witch that scared me in ages, although I'll admit, I still get chills when the music starts playing for one.

Anyway, I hope they buff her or otherwise tweak her somehow in the future to restore her creepiness/fear factor.
I also hope they find a way to make her stop spawning in places where there is no way to pass besides disturbing her.

So.. thoughts?
/rant

[Infest0125]

I also hope they find a way to make her stop spawning in places where there is no way to pass besides disturbing her.

That may make the witch most terrifying.

When you HAVE to pass her.

[YuriTMND]

There is no passing her, especially when in the subway level where you have to go through the trains.

[Cyanyde]

I agree that the best times are when all 4 survivors have to sneak by her one at a time.. I've had a whole team manage it and it's pretty intense.
The problem is when she's right in the middle of the hallway and there is no way by her at all.. While it's cool trying to decide who is going to do the deed, it sucks knowing that you can take her down in one shot if you know where/when to shoot.

I say buff her and make her spawn against walls so you at least have a chance to sneak by.

[Swarm]

Thoughts...
The witch was bound to get not scary after a while. Very rarely in any game that I replay a lot do certain things stay scary/intense. Atleast your not totally numb to the witch since the music still has a effect on you.

I doubt Valve will change much with the witch to maker her more scary/intense to veteran players since she does work as intended but who knows.

I also don't think they will remove the witch spawning into the critical path either. When she is in the way she is doing her duty of slowing the group down and making them come up with a plan to get by her (even if it is just to sneak up and instapwn her with the shotgun). At the very least she can add a lot more chaos to a already intense situation if she is in the way and something else is happening.

[Cyanyde]

I almost wish I could be a newb again so I can be surprised by all the cool stuff again..

Stuff like, OMG PLANE CRASH!! :o

[dkmy77]

I like the witch, the one shot to the head instant kill was intended, although it would take a skilled/experienced player to pull it off. Just hope that there no noob in your team during versus when theres a witch around.

Because Witch PWNS NOOOBS!!

[OneKplus337]

If the infected team knows where she is, a boomer can wait at the right moment and spray the person b4 it happens so it messes them up, even a hunter pounce from far away right b4 they shoot her works. It's just another device to help the infected team, not meant to destroy the survivors.

In a chaotic situation she can easily be accidentally disturbed. Once someone was boomed, and they threw a pipe bomb that happened to land next to a witch we didnt even know was there and it disturbed her and he got incapped. Everythings there for a reason.

[Cyanyde]

I agree with the "accidentally disturbed" part.. that adds some tension, but when you are playing with other experienced players that sort of situation rarely happens.

I've drawn people to the witch as an infected, as well as the car alarm, which is satisfying as hell, but in regular play she's too easy to take down by one player. (IMHO)

[Gorm_Gulthyn]

idk i've seen ppl die alot from the witch on expert though not when we see her and can shoot her easely

[mazouth]

when I play agains't a real well organized infected team the witch moment is always a bit scary.

When someone goes for the headshot, often the rest of the team stay in the back. Now 2 sec before the survivor reach the witch, tongue him away + pounce + boomer bile + startled witch.
You can often hear
"What the... arrrgh fu.. NO, help me HELP ME"
when everybody realised the witch-killer is already dead.

edit:
Because Witch PWNS NOOOBS!!
yeah I love it when I say to the team:
"maybe someone should headshot her"
then noob player zoom in with hunter rifle then shoot:
*5 sec later*
"arrgh"

[Cyanyde]

Yeah I used to think the Rifle should be able to headshot her.. it can't and you usually end up dead for your trouble.

The only way to headshot her is with the shotty (t1 or t2) to the head..
Even then it's not 100% you definitely need timing and precision to pull it off properly.

But damn is it ever satisfying.. I freaked some people out last night by running up and startling her, then pumping her head full of lead before she finished standing..

I'm pretty sure I have the newbs convinced I'm Chicago Ted. ;)

[Graf Irrationale Zahl]

If you want it more scary just close your eyes when you hear a witch and pretend that she gets startled when you only look at her ;).

[OneKplus337]

http://thewizardofoz.warnerbros.com/movie/img/photos/photo5.jpg

Tell me that's not scary...

[Enzo]

I'm pretty sure I have the newbs convinced I'm Chicago Ted. ;)
BLASHPEMY.

[mazouth]

Yeah I used to think the Rifle should be able to headshot her..
"maybe someone should headshot her"
then noob player zoom in with hunter rifle then shoot:
That's exactly what I meant. Now to avoid confusion I say:
"maybe someone should cr0wnd her"

[Shrubberyjsc]

"maybe someone should cr0wnd her"

I think this is the source of the problem.

Imagine if you could headshot a tank, hell, if there was a friggin' achievement for doing so.

It's kinda made the witch into an achievement dispenser, and not into the scary beast she should be.

When I tested it at WCG, she had this aura of mystery about her, like 'how close can you get?', 'can I shoot my gun near her?'.

But since I've experimented around, now I know exactly how close I can get, you can shoot right next to her with no effect, and yes, even kill her in one hit.

I think I prefer the old witch; hooray for CVARs.

[Cyanyde]

I think this is the source of the problem.

Imagine if you could headshot a tank, hell, if there was a friggin' achievement for doing so.

It's kinda made the witch into an achievement dispenser, and not into the scary beast she should be.

When I tested it at WCG, she had this aura of mystery about her, like 'how close can you get?', 'can I shoot my gun near her?'.

But since I've experimented around, now I know exactly how close I can get, you can shoot right next to her with no effect, and yes, even kill her in one hit.

I think I prefer the old witch; hooray for CVARs.


This!

It feels like we need to start a petition or something.. :(

[G3n0c1d3]

It's kinda made the witch into an achievement dispenser, and not into the scary beast she should be.


I agree, after u learn the specs on how to defeat or pass her, she loses her effectiveness.
I do laugh everytime someone tries to headshot her with a rifle lolz.
If Im playing with randoms, I usually let that person do it 2

[NovaSilisko]

Tell me that's not scary...

Win.

[Funky Biscuits]

The witch still makes me pee my pants actually

[Omega Man]

Quoting: mazouth
"maybe someone should cr0wnd her"

I think this is the source of the problem.

...It's kinda made the witch into an achievement dispenser, and not into the scary beast she should be.

Exactly! Therein lies the biggest part of the problem. That's all people want to do with her now. And once you learn "the shotgun approach" trick, you're done being scared or challenged. :(

What's funny is, when the demo and game first came out, everybody (both here and on the Steam forums) was talking about how freaky and hard she was (and how cool!), but of course, people promptly got to work at totally picking her apart, so they could find all the secret angles and tricks to negating her threat in the game. And now they lament the fact that the witch "isn't scary anymore", and plead with Valve to buff her or whatever, to make her scary/challenging again. :D

But of course, if Valve did do that, guess what? We'd pick her apart AGAIN, and figure out the tricks to beating the new version. Then we'd want yet another update. Cuz that's what we love to do. (I personally don't, but I mean most others do.)

Yet another part of the problem is simply reading forums like this. As opposed to the average gamer just playing the game on their own and not frequenting L4D forums (thus remaining largely unaware of all the exploits and tricks--at least until much, much later, if at all), we discuss and learn all that stuff very quickly(!) by simply hanging out here and on similar sites, which does tend to take a lot of the tactical, "pure" fun away, unfortunately.

Because the people on the forums are SO into finding "tricks" and workarounds (just look at all the topics), then, after they've finally neutered all the bosses in a given game that way, they complain that it's now "too easy" and isn't a challenge or fun anymore. It's a vicious circle. People complain the Witch is too easy or not scary now, but they really have themselves to blame (in a way), because they can't stop purposely trying to figure out all the exploits and tricks!

So yeah, "we are the real monsters".

[Cyanyde]

I suppose the effectiveness of this relies upon the not-knowing-ness of how to kill her. :P

[Omega Man]

I suppose the effectiveness of this relies upon the not-knowing-ness of how to kill her. :P
Yeah, it pretty much does! You're actually better off (gameplay-wise) being blissfully unaware of all the "tricks" in this game. =)

For the record, I personally tend to skip most of the "trick to kill the "blank" EVERY TIME!!!!" type of threads. I really don't want to know that stuff. I want the game and its bosses to remain scary and threatening myself, hehe.

[OrangeCat X]

I've always wondered... what would happen if you came around the corner, and you saw two witches being sad together. (Or three, even.)

Sneak by both, all?

O.o

BTW: I have REALLY good headphones, when the witch is startled you HEAR it.

[Nemesis_vs_Leon]

Just run by the witch 1 person at a time and wait for her to calm down after each person... you can even run right next to her as long as you don't shoot or shine light on her, or touch her.

Her detection radius is 1/2 what it should be for her to actually matter. I thought she'd be able to hear you more easily.

So yeah, "we are the real monsters".
Engineers do this too actually. It's a good thing to find all the exploits, that's the best part of the game! You can still have fun with anything and its flaws.

[Nemesis_vs_Leon]

D:

[Shrubberyjsc]

So yeah, "we are the real monsters".

Interesting angle, but all you have to do is go down the list of achievements to see what is possible.

'Kill a witch with a single headshot'

What?!

I'll go try that. It didn't work with HR, or AR, but it did with AS!

It's not as if it would be that hard to figure out, is what I'm saying.

[iH8lazyDead]

what if they kept the witch the same on easy, but randomized her sensitivities. what i mean is make it so you don't know how close you can get, how far away you need to be in order to shoot, perhaps less of a warning before she sets off. if each encounter were subject to different conditions then i'd think you'd get that tension we loved in the begining. the reason i say leave the "easy mode" witch the same is for players that aren't all that good at the game but would still like to get the crownd achievement.

this would take away from the unpredictability a bit but perhaps the ai director could tailor the sensitivities to how well the survivors are doing up to that point. thoughts?

It's not as if it would be that hard to figure out, is what I'm saying.
i hear ya, its like a road map to turning the witch into nothing but a speed bump

[armored cow]

what if they kept the witch the same on easy, but randomized her sensitivities.
I personally like that idea, but too many people would bitch and moan about it being too random, like crits in TF2.

[iH8lazyDead]

I personally like that idea, but too many people would bitch and moan about it being too random, like crits in TF2.
lol, yeah you're probably right. can't please everyone...

[iKissedABoomer]

The witch is sexy now
http://www.left4dead411.com/forums/index.php?actio n=vthread&forum=6&topic=8022 (http://www.left4dead411.com/forums/index.php?action=vthread&forum=6&topic=8022)

[Funky Biscuits]

old witch is old
new witch is sexai

[mazouth]

I'm not often confident with the witch around, for a time I use to always go for AS, in case we see a witch. But now I often take the rifle instead for the reload time.

To be honest I won't mind if the witch had a single-hit kill, wich would have a reload time (if some are still crazy enough to stay in her path) but too many players would complain I suppose. (I mean this even on VS)

[Tongued]

On versus shes still scary, because the player infected will try to get you to disturb her. Witches still continue to end many rounds in tears.

[Felios]

I'm still afraid of the tank, because whenever I hear him I know that unless we are incredibly good or lucky at least one of us is going to die. Yet, when I hear a witch, as much as I want to be frightened, I know that a single person with a shotgun can take her out. If they have to keep in the headshot thing(which I think is unecessary), they should at least make it so you can't run right past her. nobody I know EVER sneaks by the witch anymore, you just run right past her and she gets irritated but you'll be alright. Only time you won't be is if you accidentally shoot the witch(unlikely with experienced players) or if all four of you run past her at the same time.

[Stupoider]

The witch is sexy now

DON'T YOU DARE SAY THAT AGAIN.

The witch has always been sexy.

[DoGZaO]

Only scary thing in L4D is the Tank on expert imo :(

[Frito]

Only scary thing in L4D is the Tank on expert imo :(


Going through the cornfield on expert is pretty tense too.

[Havoc1310]

URL (http://www.naeemshah.com/images/helmit.gif)
Solved

[arsis]

http://i42.tinypic.com/29gmk2b.jpg

Is she now?

[SCE_Dantalion]

i dont even stop at the witch anymore just turn off the light walk up as usualy blast her head and go on with the game infected or not ... but the whole boomer sitting on it does raise a very very annoying situration.

[0range]

I usually play with a friend, who, putting it bluntly, sucks at anything that remotely needs reflexes or aiming skills (but at least he's aware of it and enjoying the game anyway).
That means although I'm not scared of the witch anymore at all, she's still the source of lots of entertainment for me :)

[L4DFreak11]

That means although I'm not scared of the witch anymore at all, she's still the source of lots of entertainment for me

Lol, same here.

I used to say, "OMFG WITCH SHOOTE ITTT!!!11"

But now I just casually say, "Turn off yo lightz. Witch."

[iKissedABoomer]

Is she now?


I'd hit it.

[Cyanyde]

I'd hit it.
Yup. :)

Also, I agree that the witch can still provide massive lulz.. but that's more to do with the newbs and not so much the witch herself.

Also, Tank is only scary when you're low on health and thus slower than he is.. :|

[Curmudgeon5462]

Personally, I like the randomised sensitivity idea, and the more than one witch at a time possibility.

A couple more things I would like to see.

Double the witches HP, this way if one person goes to off the witch with the AS, they WILL die, and it makes her scarier in general.

Flashlights barely make a difference at all, I think if a person uses a light anywhere near the witch, she should come and whip thier ass.

Also, I think gunfire should aggitate her, like maybe if your to close and you pull the trigger, thats the last straw. And a huge firefight to close would make her come and kill you.

[mazouth]

I think gunfire should aggitate her, like maybe if your to close and you pull the trigger, thats the last straw. And a huge firefight to close would make her come and kill you.
It's actually how the game is...
the more than one witch at a time possibility.
the same but not at the same place.
Flashlights barely make a difference at al
it does if you want to walk around her without the intention to cr0wnd her.

In VS the moment the survivors will by pass or take care of her is one of the best opportunity for infected.

[Grieverlionhart]

When you HAVE to pass her.

I hate the avoid everyone achievment, its done by complete fucking random luck, i did it and it didnt give me the achievement.

[iH8lazyDead]

I usually play with a friend, who, putting it bluntly, sucks at anything that remotely needs reflexes or aiming skills (but at least he's aware of it and enjoying the game anyway).
That means although I'm not scared of the witch anymore at all, she's still the source of lots of entertainment for me :)
LOL same, i honestly haven't had anyone (gamer or not) play this game that didn't get hooked. i've got a buddy that CANNOT pass a red car or a witch without accidentally shooting them. oh the lulz, and of course there's the old "shoot the red car for bonus points!" trick :P

OT: another thought i had on the witch is changing her movement. the only problem is i tend to lean towards something like the hunter. the idea though is to make her movement unique and unorthodox. like giving her the ability to scale walls and ceilings (dunno, creeps me out in movies. exorcist etc) with a small lunge for the knock down strike. i.e. when disturbed indoors she'd jump straight to the ceiling or nearby wall (again with the unpredictablility) or just stay on the floor but keep a low profile like the hunter only fast, she'd close the distance to about ten feet then lunge. if urban outdoors she would keep a low profile and zig-zag towards her target making it difficult to shoot her and panic inducing for the person who set her off. in rural outdoors it'd be cool to see her scale about ten feet up a tree and go tree to tree until near the target then with the lunge-one hit knock down. i think these movements would spice her up a bit, but tbh they're definitely in the "feature creep" realm as they would require some serious code.

[Cyanyde]

I just went through 2 campaigns where both times I cr0wned the witch *every* time she spawned...
It was hilarious almost every time hearing 12-14 year olds beg me to get away from her, only to hear them praise me as the leetest l4d player ever after I raped her in the mouth..

I'm serious about the Chicago Ted thing.. I swear the newbs are convinced.. ;)

[Keptron]

That may make the witch most terrifying.
A witch with Michael Jackson face would terrify me for 7 nights. This is scary.

Edit:
Witch being scary would be like this: You guys remember in Half-Life 2 Ep. 2 when fast zombie jump on the car and you see the bastard trying to kill you? This would be awesome to see her attacking or at least would be a cool movement

[VaporTrail]

How about this for an idea of making the witch a little more scary (or hard)? This might be for inclusion in L4D2 (Left 4 Dead Again?) as it would probably require new animations, programming, and such...

Variable triggers and behavior patterns.

Basically the witch's behavior is unchanged while she's just sitting there... but the AID has preselected qualities that affect what she will trigger on easiest, and what she does after she's triggered... with NO way to know (without some kind of mod or dev tool) what she's set for.

Stuff like:

- Trigger choices: (only one active at a time. Others make her mad as current operation)

Standard: your regular behavior. Cry, get mad, get up, get madder, decide to get even and THEN attack...

Light Sensitive: The first person to point a flashlight at her causes her to bolt to her feet (no slow "i'm gonna get up now... eventually" bit) and bum's rush the offender. Basically similar to what happens in the intro video: Louis points his flashlight at her and she's insta-ticked.

Sound Sensative: Firing a weapon in her hearing and sight will cause her to bolt up and bum's rush.

"Are you seriously shooting at me?": A bullet passing close by triggers the bolt and bums rush.

"Go the hell AWAY!": Approaching too close (Swiping distance) causes her to take your legs out from under you BEFORE she stands up. This swipe could concieveably take down ALL FOUR survivors if they were all dumb enough to get that close.

- Behavior choices: (again, only one active)

Again, Standard behavior.

"What rhymes with witch?": Instead of taking out her aggression on the first target, the witch will instead after incapping that target, select a new target (closest survivor, quarter to half second of stand still time) bum's rush and incap and repeat until survivors are all incapped or she's dead.

Berserker: The witch will take down her first target, and then move to the closest mobile target in line of sight (Survivor, infected, SPinfected, Tank...) and attempt to kill/incap it. She repeats this until she hits a max distance from the survivors, or is killed. Remember if she runs forward through a level and you don't kill her, she'll run out of targets and stop, probably see you eventually, and you WON'T like the reunion.

Smack and dash: A variant of the first one, she hits the triggering survivor like a tank punch and takes down thier health by 25-50% and sends em flying, runs to the next standing survivor and repeats. She doesn't slow down much while she does this so she's a moving target. This one could end with her running off after she's incapped someone or after several successful hits or something.



Now would you be as ready to walk up to our friendly sexsay weeper and try to apply some 00 cheer if you knew she might cut you off at the knees and then proceed to wipe out your entire group, especially since you wouldn't be able to tell if she would beforehand?

And having 25 flavors of carnage is much better than just having vanilla every time.

[Hyph]

So far the one instance that has totally freaked me out was on an expert run of no mercy, we'd avoided all the witches so far for the acheivement, every one of us was doing the unbreakable acheivement as well so we'd be doing damn damn well.

So after avoiding a tonne of witches and making it through all the way to the finale what do we get?

a witch crying at the bottom of the first ladder to get to the roof ;-;

So we all suck our guts up and decide to go for an avoid by running straight at her jumping on her head and climbing up the ladder in 15 second intervals.

We all made it and got the acheivement, but it was damn tense :D

And having 25 flavors of carnage is much better than just having vanilla every time.

And i really do love your idea. Totally.

What would be kind of cool is having slight variations to the form of witch as well, you could have all of your behavioural patterns, but you could have certain witches with different abilities that complement the map.

Stupid example - A witch thats able to scale walls and crawl on ceilings in the sewers.

Changes like that would add whole new dimensions of stress in an imminent horde situation.

[Funky Biscuits]

And having 25 flavors of carnage is much better than just having vanilla every time.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh95/Staaanky/drooling_homer-712749.png

[VaporTrail]

"Mmmmm.... Vanilla..."

[Funky Biscuits]

25 flavors
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh95/Staaanky/202592031_97b1e205ec.jpg
Mmmmmmm 25 Flavours
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh95/Staaanky/homer_drooling.jpg

[Curmudgeon5462]

Quoting: Curmudgeon5462
I think gunfire should aggitate her, like maybe if your to close and you pull the trigger, thats the last straw. And a huge firefight to close would make her come and kill you.

It's actually how the game is...
Quoting: Curmudgeon5462
the more than one witch at a time possibility.

the same but not at the same place.
Quoting: Curmudgeon5462
Flashlights barely make a difference at al

it does if you want to walk around her without the intention to cr0wnd her.

In VS the moment the survivors will by pass or take care of her is one of the best opportunity for infected.

If the witch does respond to gunfire in her vicinity, It needs to be much more sensitive, I haven't noticed yet.

I have seen two witches in a match and even the same street, but I think he meant in the same spot.

And no, she barely cares about flashlights, Im talking about if you use one in the same warehouse as her she'll come kill you.

[mazouth]

I agree, it takes a bit too long to startle her.

[apimon]

I think the people on this forum are scary.

[Funky Biscuits]

Im so cold inside

[sagesource]

And having 25 flavors of carnage is much better than just having vanilla every time.

Really excellent ideas but I would add a sleeping Witch as well -- no light, and no music, hunched over in the darkest corner. Since she was asleep, she would react a bit more slowly at the start -- when you tripped over her, you'd have a second or two to get out of Dodge before she blew. That would make the lives of speedrunners much more interesting.

[KillEmAll]

Most of the time she isn't scary too me, but about 20 minutes ago, my dad and I were playing No Mercy On advanced, and we had reached the final saferoom. We were in that 'elevator' area, with the ladders that lead up to the roof. All of us knew the witch was somewhere around, so we were keeping aware. Then, my dad was climbing the first ladder, and when he turned to his right at the top of it, there she was! It didn't scare him, but I was watching his screen when it happened so I would know where the witch was, so I got a little freaked out. Strangely enough, she wasn't startled by this... o_O

The thing about the witch is, it all just depends on the situation.

[Cyanyde]

The thing about the witch is, it all just depends on the situation.
Agreed.

When she's in the middle of the only way past and someone *has* to kill her, I'm usually the first one attempting the cr0wn.

The best laugh I get in the game is usually when I miss my shot and end up incapped.. it makes me laugh until I'm either rescued or dead.

the other best fun ever is griefing in versus mode as infected when I'm drunk. :)

[TidalSpiral]

I always thought it would be cool if there were different "poses" for a witch... like let's say she can be curled up on the ground, but also she can have her head in her hands standing up against a wall, or my favorite if she could have her claws dug in the ceiling and be clinging to it wailing with little black tears dripping down. That way you could hear her sometimes but not notice she's dangling above you. lol

[Compy386]

what if they kept the witch the same on easy, but randomized her sensitivities. what i mean is make it so you don't know how close you can get, how far away you need to be in order to shoot, perhaps less of a warning before she sets off. if each encounter were subject to different conditions then i'd think you'd get that tension we loved in the begining. the reason i say leave the "easy mode" witch the same is for players that aren't all that good at the game but would still like to get the crownd achievement.


That is an extremely good idea.

I also like the 25 flavors thing more...

[VaporTrail]

With the random behavior attributes the Cr0wned achievement is still possible... just insanely risky (as it should be IMO). When the "hardest" solo achievement becomes the standard way of dealing with the threat, something's wrong.

[Grieverlionhart]

I also hope they find a way to make her stop spawning in places where there is no way to pass besides disturbing her.
I still need to get that fucking no disturb achievment, she's not scary. More of a way to make me think I have wasted a whole hour for no reason

[Edgecrusher]

I always thought it would be cool if there were different "poses" for a witch... like let's say she can be curled up on the ground, but also she can have her head in her hands standing up against a wall, or my favorite if she could have her claws dug in the ceiling and be clinging to it wailing with little black tears dripping down. That way you could hear her sometimes but not notice she's dangling above you. lol

Aamen. Especially when she is at ceiling... So creepy, so awesome.

[DTard]

I personally like that idea, but too many people would bitch and moan about it being too random, like crits in TF2.

If they complain about that then they are retarded... the whole spawning of the infected is technically RANDOM

this would add a much needed angle on the game IMHO

[UKMD Elmo]

Hmm, a witch that moves about would be scary as hell. Not fast, very very slowly in fact. It would make it harder to nail her with a headshot and if you choose not to take her on and stay in one position a while she might just 'find' you...

[sagesource]

a witch that moves about

How about a witch, or a Special Infected at least, who stalked players? I know I'm not the only one who misses the Black Ops assassins from Half-Life 1, who would pop off a shot or two at you and then dodge away. You could have it so that if you pissed her off, she would run away, but trail you until the next safe house, running in if you were low on health or incapped to make a bad situation worse. And, of course, making creepy noises in the distance all the time.

[SRXSniper58]

I like the witch, the one shot to the head instant kill was intended, although it would take a skilled/experienced player to pull it off. Just hope that there no noob in your team during versus when theres a witch around.

Because Witch PWNS NOOOBS!!


NOT!
it does not take experience to crown witches
I know ill get flamed for this....but they should take away crowned

[SRXSniper58]

And vapor trail (since my quote quotes your whole post) I think the berserker idea is awesome for the witch
(except it goes after survivors not infected)

[Geoff Portnoy]

The witch isn't the only thing about the game that isn't scary. The gmae needs a total update. Someone needs to make all the levels much darker, like no lights other than your flashlights (And others flashlights), and the muzzle flash. 2 weeks after the world goes to hell, I don't think that some guy is gonna be sitting in front of a power grid sipping on coffee and flipping switches. The game could be a lot darker, and the old uniforms need to come back.

[DethPenguin]

Flickering lights and random power outages.

[SRXSniper58]

Get her to have a one-hit-kill on all modes and attack the next closest survivor after killing who startled her, then the next survivor until killed
And give her just enough health to be able to Cr0wn her
(aka...MORE HEALTH)

[SRXSniper58]

Exactly! Therein lies the biggest part of the problem. That's all people want to do with her now. And once you learn "the shotgun approach" trick, you're done being scared or challenged. :(

What's funny is, when the demo and game first came out, everybody (both here and on the Steam forums) was talking about how freaky and hard she was (and how cool!), but of course, people promptly got to work at totally picking her apart, so they could find all the secret angles and tricks to negating her threat in the game. And now they lament the fact that the witch "isn't scary anymore", and plead with Valve to buff her or whatever, to make her scary/challenging again. :D

But of course, if Valve did do that, guess what? We'd pick her apart AGAIN, and figure out the tricks to beating the new version. Then we'd want yet another update. Cuz that's what we love to do. (I personally don't, but I mean most others do.)

Yet another part of the problem is simply reading forums like this. As opposed to the average gamer just playing the game on their own and not frequenting L4D forums (thus remaining largely unaware of all the exploits and tricks--at least until much, much later, if at all), we discuss and learn all that stuff very quickly(!) by simply hanging out here and on similar sites, which does tend to take a lot of the tactical, "pure" fun away, unfortunately.

Because the people on the forums are SO into finding "tricks" and workarounds (just look at all the topics), then, after they've finally neutered all the bosses in a given game that way, they complain that it's now "too easy" and isn't a challenge or fun anymore. It's a vicious circle. People complain the Witch is too easy or not scary now, but they really have themselves to blame (in a way), because they can't stop purposely trying to figure out all the exploits and tricks!

So yeah, "we are the real monsters".

So then you make her insanely hard
increase her alert radius by a lot, make her one hit kill on all difficulties except Easy(I love watching her rip me apart sometimes when im incapped)
So then larger alert radius=she stands before you can get close enough to cr0wn her, so noobs wont cry about taking away cr0wned(another possibility)
but they still die=epic lulz

[CrackYoFace]

I'm afraid she isn't as scary to me as she once was. With all the exploits and overall realizing that all you have to do is aim just at the tip of the spine where the neck and spine connect and blast away with an Auto Shotty and she' s dead one shot..( 2 max)... I'm really dissapointed in her easiness to take down. She should be ALOT more like the tank as in difficulty to take down. I want her to be more difficult to kill...i want it to really fuck up the group....because then it makes everyone have to plan and strategize on how to get by her. She does however occasionally make me go "oh shit..." when she's far off...but i can hear her though...and i'll fire in the distance at infected..and somehow i'll hit her thinking she is just an infected ( i know some people have done this in some form or fashion) and she screams and it says YOU HAVE ALERTED THE WITCH...at that point i'm like..."fuck.......-_-...

But yea...she needs a complete overhaul in L4D2

[SRXSniper58]

Also they should update her in the same way in L4d1
Whether make her run ahead after killing the survivor who startled her and start crying again in your path instead of disappearing or attack every survivor
Or we can get really nasty and give her a one hit kill on all difficulties except Normal, and increase her health from 500 to normal 1000 on easy, and 1000 to 1500 in normal, advanced, and expert
The witch was meant to be left alone, or use teamwork to kill her, not to be cr0wned to ruin both purposes
to settle the take away cr0wned idea, increase her alert radius(make her notice you from farther away) so before most people can crown her she is already standing. Add the one hit kill idea and BOOM!You have made Cr0wned a true achievement, not an easy task.(this will settle the "noobs crying not to take away crowned" dispute)

[hunterhunter]

I say the witches scariness depends on your current situation.
Ex.1 health 75+ w/med pack=not so scary
Ex.2 health 55- w/no med pack=scary
Ex.3 startling the witch then pumping her w/an auto-shotty and having to reload when she's a few feet away=you crap your self

[SRXSniper58]

I want her scary on all situations, thats what shes for
I BOUGHT L4d FOR THE WITCH I WANT HER TO BE WORTH IT!

[Shrubberyjsc]

I want her scary on all situations, thats what shes for
I BOUGHT L4d FOR THE WITCH I WANT HER TO BE WORTH IT!
"We've found a witch, may we mod her?

How do you know she is a witch?

She looks like one!

There are ways of telling whether she is a witch.

DO THEY HURT?!

What do we mod apart from witches?

MOAR WITCHES!

MOD HER! MOOOOD HEEEEER!"

[UKMD Elmo]

"We've found a witch, may we mod her?

How do you know she is a witch?

She looks like one!

There are ways of telling whether she is a witch.

DO THEY HURT?!

What do we mod apart from witches?

MOAR WITCHES!

MOD HER! MOOOOD HEEEEER!"

You love that film far too much man xD

[Zorgy]

You love that film far too much man xD

It is physicaly impossible to love that film too much! By the way shrub have you seen spamalot? I thought it was excellent.

[Chr0n1c]

While she can sometimes be trouble for the random group of rag-tag pubbers, the witch is barely a minor annoyance to a veteran survivor team who play often together. It's way too easy to own the witch in vs mode. Even with a well-planned and executed infected team ambush, it's still so easy to kill her before she can hit any of the survivors. Even if she manages to get one, she stands there above her incap'd victim for about 5 seconds before she does any real damage, plenty of time for the other three survivors to blast her to pieces.

I say buff her in VS mode to the point where you need at least two survivors to deliver simultaneous shotgun blasts to her face in order to cr0wn her. It would force survivor teams to change strats alot, and try to actually sneak past her without disturbing her. And, in the situations where you must disturb her, it would take great teamwork to cr0wn her without anyone taking an incap.

s1: "You shot too early!"
s2: "No, you're too slow!"
(rage)

In campaign mode (expert) the witch currently still adds an interesting dimension to the gameplay. It's more of a challenge and more exciting if she is in a spot where you have to disturb her, simply because if you screw up the cr0wn, or try to sneak past her with red health, it'll cost you a life and several wasted minutes waiting for closet rescue.

[Fernsy]

Whats why the wondering witch is a gr8 idea! It makes you fear her again!

[UKMD Elmo]

Whats why the wondering witch!

Sounds like something out of Doctor Suess.

[Fernsy]

Sounds like something out of Doctor Suess.

Yeah I think a new special zombie should be the cat in the hat!

[ThoughtThinking]

Yeah I think a new special zombie should be the cat in the hat!


Oh My God
So much win if Cat in the Hat was in L4d2

[Fernsy]

Oh My God
So much win if Cat in the Hat was in L4d2

I dont know what he doesnt, so I dont know what his ability would be?!?!?!

[SickDaza]

:o What if the cat in the hat was the wandering witch.

[ThoughtThinking]

:o What if the cat in the hat was the wandering witch.


No hes more epic it would be like he takes weapons outta his hat and he gives them to survivors for lulz

[Fernsy]

:o What if the cat in the hat was the wandering witch.

What you see his red and white top hat above the hoards heads?

[SRXSniper58]

SO BACK ON TOPIC.......
Maybe multiply her shredding attack while your down by 1.5-2
I mean seriously, wont that kill you quickly normally
And her knockdown punch kills you if you are already incapped(or she does 100 damage to your 200 health given to you when you are down)

[007 Isdead]

Originally Posted by Omega Man http://www.left4dead411.com/forums/images/styles/l4dead/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.left4dead411.com/forums/showthread.php?p=175764#post175764)
Exactly! Therein lies the biggest part of the problem. That's all people want to do with her now. And once you learn "the shotgun approach" trick, you're done being scared or challenged.


In addition to the instant kill, you can walk behind her, then when she gets up she makes a full circle just to try to get to you (plenty of time to pump lead in her head). Ironically I learned this myself before I learned how to get an instant kill, to me instant kills are eaiser than my original method.

[ViperGTS19801]

The first day I downloaded this game after purchasing it, I didn't even see a Witch until the Church level of Death Toll in Single Player. I was playing through the single player campaigns to aclimate myself to the new mechanics, and as I got out of the saferoom and peered towards the watch tower, I heard the Witch crying. I got a chill when I heard the music and thought to myself, "Ohhhh shit."

However, I had not yet encountered a Witch up until this point, and when someone tells me "Do not press that button", I want to know why. Therefore, I crouched and took a potshot at the Witch with my SMG. She was sitting on the wooden walkway you have to run across towards the train car to get over the fence. Now, I am a HELL of a shot in FPS games, so the round landed exactly in her right temple - and she was NOT happy.

This bitch hopped over the railing "Dukes of Hazard" style, looked straight at me, and sprinted the 100 yards or so from where she landed to my location. Her eyes were bright red, her arms were straight out to her sides, and her claws looked vicious - and I nearly wet myself. I distinctly remember thinking, "oh shitshitshitshit FUCK SHE RUNS FAST FFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUU" as I fired my SMG in a blind panic.

I was actually scared - my palms were a bit sweaty, my eyes were darting back and forth on the screen, and I was breathing heavier than normal. She scared the hell out of me.

Now, when I hear the Witch, I think, "Oooh, let's show these noobs how Cr0wning is done."

I agree that she should be more randomized. Completely random aggrivation radius, 50/50 chance of her attack being either an incap or a straight up kill, and extreme sensetivity to being looked at. Looking directly at her from ANY distance makes her aggitated but doesn't make her get up until you're within her aggrivation radius. That would make her scary because in the attempt to NOT piss her off, you can't really see where she is or judge her distance too accurately.

[SRXSniper58]

since cr0wned was already in l4d1, it shouldnt be in l4d2(need new achievements) so can we remove the one headshot kill mechanism ploise?

[Sigurd]

Now, when I hear the Witch, I think, "Oooh, let's show these noobs how Cr0wning is done.

I laugh when people say that and end up making the entire team fail due to missing.Especially on versus.

[versatilechild]

shes a bitch...

[CrAnKeDHigH]

I laugh when people say that and end up making the entire team fail due to missing.Especially on versus.

LOL actually I dont see the other team doing that very often. If your playing in pub matches, you can pretty much do and say this whether you miss or not.