Constructive (I hope) discussion about the big patch

[fhein]

So that big patch a few weeks shook things up a bit, eh? I really love that they patched up so many of the exploits, but some changes are less than great I think.

I'll try to not make this another bitch and whine thread, but I'm a little curious if others agree or if I'm just hallucinating..

First of all I'm sure they've done something with the engine that's messed things up. Hitboxes feel really off and glitchy now. As a survivor it seems like 25% of the shots pass right through regular infected without doing any damage. Doesn't matter if it's the autoshotgun at close range or M16 at medium, happens with both. The tank also misses a lot more when punching survivors point blank. I'm no expert pouncer with the hunter but now it feels more random if hits land. Sometimes you pounce straight through a survivor several times without connecting.

I always keep an eye on network lag and server fps and this happens alot even when these values are within acceptable ranges. The main point is that I think it wasn't like this before the big patch. Does anyone agree or am I imagining it? Known fixes? I tried to reduce graphics settings (though I didn't have fps problems) but it didn't change stuff.

But I really like that they fixed the exploits :)


Second issue, that I'll rant slightly less about, is the "equal" spawning of tank and weapons. Does a lot of people still think this was an improvement to the game? Sure it makes the matches less random but it's definitely not fair.

I think what bothers me is that Valve had made some clear design choices when they created the game, but it went out the window when enough people started whining in the forums.


But I like that they tried to balance the autoshotty. It's still no. 1 in versus, but at least they tried :)


Sorry if there's been some similar posts. Haven't had time to keep up with the forum lately.

[binge]

Second issue, that I'll rant slightly less about, is the "equal" spawning of tank and weapons. Does a lot of people still think this was an improvement to the game? Sure it makes the matches less random but it's definitely not fair.

I agree, the second survivor team knows when there's gonna be a tank so they can prepare and search for molotovs etc

And I also agree on the hunter part, I fly alot through survivors nowadays or I just get stuck inside of them...

[fishing4ducks]

I thought it was just me who was experiencing the bullet proof zombie syndrome! I seem to get it alot more with the hunting rifle than anything else, I had a zombie the other day that took 5 rounds before he stopped slapping me in the face!!

[arsis]

The smoker is harder to hit the survivors...

[MokiCzech]

The smoker is harder to hit the survivors...
Sooo hard :-(

And I always pounce prom MEGAULTRALOLOMGWTFBBQ distance and stay on Survivors head without any damaga. It's ugly :(

[staveoffzombies]

True the equal Tank's and Witches give the survivors a heads up on what to expect, but I've found it helps the infected as well. They know when they're going to get a Tank so they can make a plan of attack based on the terrain and such that they know will be available instead of suddenly being thrust into a Tank by surprise.

[Stuffinator]

It's a double-edged sword:
- first of all, think about why they changed the thing with the tank and the weapons spawning as equal as possible for both teams! because there were hundreds of threads on this board, on other boards and on the official boards, where users complained about the fact, that they didn't got a tank, but the other team did!
- next thing is, that this major change affected the versus experience. while everyone was familiar with the old versus system they now have a new experience, which makes the game more interesting for me.

on the other hand you're right:
- versus hardly gives variety now! its much more interesting to see different teams overcoming different situations
- the team, which is much worser, now has lesser chances in getting back into the fight / game, so there are much more ragequitters than before!

for the other issue you mentioned:
- I have noticed the bulletproof zombie-thing and yeah it's pretty anoying!
- but I never had problems pouncing someone, except the survivor-punch-to-death thing, but I'm fine with it. Anyway, jumping through a survivor never happend to me!

[odj]

where users complained about the fact, that they didn't got a tank, but the other team did!

I remember one game I played where our team playing as survivors went up against 4 tanks in 2 maps and when we switched to infected we only got 1 tank for the 2 maps. It seems unfair to some people but much more challenging and fun for others. (aka the rage quitters and non-rage quitters)

Personally I preferred the 4 tanks.

[OneKplus337]

The smoker is harder to hit the survivors...

That's because everyone, including me, was bitching that you aim at a survivor, and then it grabs a different one. I believe they shrunk the hit radius to ensure it gets the survivor you want, now it just takes more skill :)

True the equal Tank's and Witches give the survivors a heads up on what to expect, but I've found it helps the infected as well. They know when they're going to get a Tank so they can make a plan of attack based on the terrain and such that they know will be available instead of suddenly being thrust into a Tank by surprise.

True True. As survivors you can prepare for battle, as infected you might all wait so you can have 4 infected + tank to give you an advantage. It works both ways.

[Nemesis_vs_Leon]

As a survivor it seems like 25% of the shots pass right through regular infected without doing any damage
source engine is inaccurate overall. I mess with EVERYTHING including host_timescale in L4D and CSS.

In Left 4 Dead you CAN'T damage infected the first 1/2 second after they start to charge you. Also, slowing it down reveals pretty random hitboxes, especially around the heads. You have to shoot their neck to accurately hit their head, and it won't even work the first 1/2 second after they start charging. If they are in their attacking animation, you can headshot them, but this is VERY HARD because their head flails around so much and so fast.

[gehn6]

I personally have noticed the tank not being able to hit people point blank as much. I do like the fact that each team gets a tank/witch but i don't like that its always at the same spot. should be random imo.

[fhein]

source engine is inaccurate overall. I mess with EVERYTHING including host_timescale in L4D and CSS.

But it used to be better, ie before they started patching it, right?

I'm starting to wish that someone else write another 4 player coop/8pl versus game involving zombies using a better engine. Not something flashier, like CryEngine 2 or whatever it's called, just something simple and stable would do. Too bad they'd get their asses sued if they used the same kind of infected bosses because I really like their design and balance :(


I also realized I forgot the punchline about equal tank spawns: It's less random, still not fair but it's definitely boring. Sure the old system screwed you (or the enemy team) hard sometimes, but not knowing if you'd get 0 or 2 tanks kept you on your toes.

If I wanted 100% predictable matches I'd play TF2, which I can practically play in my sleep (or atleast when I'm so drunk I have trouble standing up)

[TidalSpiral]

On Xbox, without the patch, I can't seem to kill a hunter on top of somebody with the Hunting Rifle most times... I mean it does work on occasion but there are several times where I empty a clip through the scope into the hunter and he keeps on slashing. Other than that we don't have most of these changes and I'm kind of glad. Hunter slash is still 10 damage, pouncing works just fine, random tanks and witches, could use the Smoker buff though.

[G_X]

First of all I'm sure they've done something with the engine that's messed things up. Hitboxes feel really off and glitchy now. As a survivor it seems like 25% of the shots pass right through regular infected without doing any damage. Doesn't matter if it's the autoshotgun at close range or M16 at medium, happens with both.
Never experienced that before. I have (since the patch) seen zombies clip through things (like tables) and become immune to the melee knockback, but that's it.

[OneKplus337]

zombies clip through things (like tables) and become immune to the melee knockback, but that's it.

Yea that is terrible annoying. If it is an area where they are ducking, cant be moved back due to physics objects in the way, or clipping. Melee does absoultely nothing. The worst is in the sewers agains the walls because they are slightly curved. You cant't melee infected that are against those walls.

[Shock]

True the equal Tank's and Witches give the survivors a heads up on what to expect, but I've found it helps the infected as well. They know when they're going to get a Tank so they can make a plan of attack based on the terrain and such that they know will be available instead of suddenly being thrust into a Tank by surprise.


we meet again..

indeed stave- i think infected have always had an advantage. they will know where the weapons are in addition to boss spawns before their turn to play surv.

[Shadow]

Weapon spawns have always been the same, it just took people up until the update to realize it -_-...

[Infest0125]

When they said tank and witch spawns will be equaled out, I didn't think they meant to the point where they'd be in the same spots.... If they had tank and witch spawns evened out yet in different places, that could fix the problem.

[one of them]

When they said tank and witch spawns will be equaled out, I didn't think they meant to the point where they'd be in the same spots
In the update they said "Percantage of map traveled". So it's not in the same spot, just in the same region of the map. If that makes any sense.

[TheDark12]

I think that by putting spawns in the exact same spots it gives the second team an unfair advantage, ESPECIALLY with the weapons. The weapons means that the second team won't bother searching harder places if they know where the guns are going to spawn. It also means that they can prepare a lot better for the tank and witches.

All they should need to do is guarantee that a tank/witch will spawn for the other team and leave the rest to chance. Having it all equal makes it MORE unfair rather than less unfair.

I think that a lot of the changes were good, in particular some of the smoker ones because the smokers were pretty useless after unsuccessful strangles and stuff. But some weren't that great, they didn't really change some things that much, or they defeated the point of the way they were before hand.

It shits me that they still haven't fixed minor important bugs like the reloading glitch. You'd think that something like that was a quick fix!