Infest0125's Plea

[Infest0125]

Stop complaining about the waits between certain DLCs and going out and saying VALVe or someone else sucks. Please.

VALVe isn't exactly a humongous group of people, but they are trying their best and they do deliver no matter how long it takes. I've seen so many people complain about waiting a couple of months for a DLC or a patch. I would honestly like to see those who complain create one faster.

Many of us waited 2 years, maybe more just for this game. Those of you who complain should be able to wait for a few months for 2 versus maps and a mode. Its a wait, but its worth it in the end.

[CarrionSwarmJosh]

Well said. I would prefer DLC that looks and plays fucking amazing, than one thrown together that sucks shit.

[TekkenDevil]

There is no reason in waiting for the new versus maps until survival mode is done, other than moneyhungry marketing reasons.

The bigger the DLC, the better they can sell it on XBLA, and god help them from releasing it on the PC first, because Microsoft would bite their head off and sacrifice them to beelzebub.

Still, L4D DLC coming slowly should be on the bottom of everyone's being concerned about list.

[Infest0125]

There is no reason in waiting for the new versus maps until survival mode is done

What about the fact that they're not completely balanced and not all infected ladders are in place?

I played versus on DT on a special server a while ago, and jeez, I can see why they were taking so long. I had almost no vantage points as infected and it was annoying.

[one of them]

EDIT: Nvm, I need to read more.

[darkmessiah]

Yeah, I agree. But Infest, why'd it take you so long to release this complaint about complaints? I was expecting you to complain like 2 months ago! This thread should have been released so long ago, goddamn I hate you!

Now, if you just released the complaint earlier, and kept doing revisions to make the complaint better, I wouldn't have to wait for the thread for 2 months, and would have been having fun and reading! Yeah, your "Infest" time may be proportionate to time itself as an elephant to a mouse, but if you stopped working on that other thread, you could have gotten it done so much faster!

[armored cow]

Darkmessiah that didn't make any sense...
EDIT: You're just confirming the fact that you are impatient. I hope that was the point, and that you were being sarcastic. If not, then you fail.

[mshield]

I'm just annoyed at the lack of information about the left 4 Dead 360 update - it is needed badly. I trust VALVe not to mess up the DLC, so I'm fine with the Spring release.

[darkmessiah]

When I ramble I don't even make sense to myself! But that second paragraph is just nonsense, I give it a 3/10, for enunciation, facts, and the fact that Time could not analogized to an elephant! Damn me, I must not like the gorillas of today.

Put some armor on that cow, make more sense then!

Oh, they won't mess up DLC, if they push something a few months, that means they're ready roll for the qualiteh.

[Xsng]

You all should treat Valve like what it is: a place of business. You can disagree all you want, but they take our money. We are the consumers. They make their product for the masses, not for the few individuals who love them so much that they'll wait for everything. It seems that people here easily forget the $50 - $60 that they shelled out for this game, not only because it was a zombie game, but it represented the ideal game of their time. When you pay your money to play this game, you deserve a little information, a little say in what goes on. That is how a business thrives, not on little fanboys that run around proclaiming that so and so is the best in the world, and they'll pay any amount of money so that they can do whatever it is the company is offering them.

I'm happy that they finally announced a release date that seems realistic for them, but you have to remember, you paid money for this.

[darkmessiah]

Forgot it was 50 bucks 'cause it was a zombie game. Can't believe how fast I warmed up to Dead Rising.

[armored cow]

I'm happy that they finally announced a release date that seems realistic for them, but you have to remember, you paid money for this.
Yes; I got what I paid for. We don't have any right to get more, it's just a bonus. So no, you really can't complain that you want more info on what is going on.

[Infest0125]

We bought it knowing there would be updates for something, but when people bitch about them not coming fast enough it just annoys the crap out of me. Sorry if you don't get your precious maps and mode in the next few days, but you can't exactly just whip up something like that and whining about something that isn't finished isn't gonna release it any faster.

[XViper1534]

I think the people that got it for Christmas are the ones who want it more, and keep complaining. That how it seems.

[The Lorax]

There is no reason in waiting for the new versus maps until survival mode is done

At least as far as the 360 DLC is concerned, wouldn't you rather have it all in one package instead of having to pay for each individually? For sure, individual releases would most likely be more expensive for the consumer than a single mass release. If Valve was trying to actually make money off of it, they'd be charging for the PC content as well.


I'm happy that they finally announced a release date that seems realistic for them, but you have to remember, you paid money for this.

Really, all I paid for was what came in the box (or from the steam download in my case). Sure, I expected some sort of extra content because I know that Valve likes to treat its customers well, but they sold a complete and finished project, which is more than I can say for other companies that will charge you $60 for a game, then charge you an extra $10 just for the REAL ending, not to mention all the extra baubles and doodads that should have been in the original product. Yes, I'm looking at you Bethesda!

[Infest0125]

Thank you Lorax.

[Jsquiggle]

I'd rather have it done right with no bugs than have it now and not function.

[Infest0125]

Unfortunately Jsquiggle, odds are there will be bugs even when the maps are done :/

It will just be a lot less buggier and more balanced.

[Xsng]

You guys do well enough speaking for yourselves, but not for the million other people who also bought the game. I got what I paid for, I feel the same way as you all do, but its just childish that you believe that everyone should feel the same way as you.

[CrAnKeDHigH]

The bigger the DLC, the better they can sell it on XBLA, and god help them from releasing it on the PC first, because Microsoft would bite their head off and sacrifice them to beelzebub.

They have already released a TON of DLC and patches for both l4d and tf2 WELL before even thinking of releasing it for xbox, so I dont understand what sense this statement makes.

Yes; I got what I paid for. We don't have any right to get more, it's just a bonus. So no, you really can't complain that you want more info on what is going on.

You got what you paid for alright. A game filled with glitches and exploits that still havent been fixed for the xbox. Is that really worth the $60 dollars you shelled out? Or do you think you should be entitled to more? Like say at the very least a patch to fix Valve's original fuck ups. Now, I agree the extra maps are a bonus, but shouldnt they have been included on the disc, especially when it took them so long to make the game in the first place?

Infest, I agree people need to stop bitching. At least all you pc owners know that when spring hits the update will be out for the pc. For you xbox owners (myself included), better be prepared for a much longer wait if Valve's past promises for the 360 are a barometer for when patches/DLC will actually be released. I'd say we MAY see this DLC sometime around christmas. Even though I hope its sooner!

[The Lorax]

but its just childish that you believe that everyone should feel the same way as you

I think this sense of entitlement people have is even more childish. Valve is going against the trend of typical commercial practices; the rules say you should charge as much as you can for your product, but Valve's so stubborn to release the content for free despite the fact they'd fill their wallets even more by charging an extra 5 or 10 here and there. If I buy a gaming system, I expect to have to pay more for the extra stuff, such as more controllers or nifty peripherals. If I purchase fast food, I'm going to need an extra couple of quarters to add fries and a drink. This DLC is our free fries and drink; it may take a little longer to get here, but by gum it's free. Anyone who bitches about getting free stuff should probably go find some perspective.

Obviously, I'm not talking to the 360 owners. Sorry folks, bummer that M$ is trying to screw you up the ass.

[Infest0125]

Personally, I'm not on PC anymore and won't be for a while as I'm experiencing unholy lag that I'd probably need a priest to fix.

I'm on 360 till that works out.

You guys do well enough speaking for yourselves, but not for the million other people who also bought the game. I got what I paid for, I feel the same way as you all do, but its just childish that you believe that everyone should feel the same way as you.

I never said people should feel the same way as me..... Also do you remember that time where people payed 50-60 bucks for what was in the game and nothing else?

Everyone payed for it an expected updates, but too many people expected them to be done right away. This isn't McDonalds, its fucking Applebees or some other quality food place if you get what I mean.

And once again, thank you Lorax.

[CrAnKeDHigH]

Obviously, I'm not talking to the 360 owners. Sorry folks, bummer that M$ is trying to screw you up the ass.

haha! you forgot to mention the part with about no lube. :(

I agree with you 100%, people feel entitled to free shit because they are used to it with valve. And when your gettin free shit, stfu and wait!

BUT, I am a 360 owner and I would gladly pay for the DLC. Well not gladly, but I would none the less. Valve/M$ isnt even giving us 360 owners an option.

[CrAnKeDHigH]

This isn't McDonalds, its fucking Applebees or some other quality food place if you get what I mean.

Bad analogy, Infest. Applebee's sucks balls to. But I get what you mean. :)

[Infest0125]

Cranked, don't worry, I think VALVe is going to do what they did with TF2 and release it when they have enough to make it worth paying for.

Dunno if that makes you feel better or worse :/

[CrAnKeDHigH]

Probably worse because tf2 has been out for over a year now with no update. So, that means we wont see any l4d updates till at least this time next year if they keep the same cycle.

[Infest0125]

So, that means we wont see any l4d updates till at least this time next year if they keep the same cycle.

I think they said somewhere that the TF2 update would be released when they finished ALL the classes.... But thats not gonna be for a long time.

Hopefully they're not gonna do THAT with Left 4 Dead, but just release it when its worth paying for.

[G_X]

They have already released a TON of DLC and patches for [...] l4d
I don't think you understand the "C" part of DLC.

[The Lorax]

BUT, I am a 360 owner and I would gladly pay for the DLC.

I'd gladly pay for it on PC, since I know that Valve is the type to (eventually) give you what they promise. I'm just happy I don't have to, which is why I don't give them much grief about their obviously questionable timetable.

[Xsng]

I think this sense of entitlement people have is even more childish.

Sure it's childish. But more childish? I don't think so. We're stuck here, because I can just as easily call this childish.

Valve is going against the trend of typical commercial practices; the rules say you should charge as much as you can for your product, but Valve's so stubborn to release the content for free despite the fact they'd fill their wallets even more by charging an extra 5 or 10 here and there. If I buy a gaming system, I expect to have to pay more for the extra stuff, such as more controllers or nifty peripherals.

It's called competition. You honestly thing Valve cares about each and everyone one of you? That they make games for the warm and fuzzy feeling that they get when they look like the good guy? Bullshit. They make it for the money just like every other person in the world. Money is the root of their business.


I never said people should feel the same way as me

What is this thread about then? That people shouldn't complain and think about this the same way. You aren't offering an argument, only a "plea" which is basically a demand.

[darkmessiah]

This isn't McDonalds, its fucking Applebees or some other quality food place if you get what I mean.
Applebees is a family restaurant, the one that sticks it's little propaganda on the table instead of just giving the candlelight and napkins. Too much frill for not enough quality. Now the Lutece... now that...

[Jsquiggle]

Unfortunately Jsquiggle, odds are there will be bugs even when the maps are done :/

It will just be a lot less buggier and more balanced.

At least progress will be made.

[The Lorax]

Money is the root of their business.

Money's the root of all business. That's not to say a company can't genuinely care about the customer. Most other companies have proven that it is possible to completely rape the consumer and still get their love and obedience, and Valve could get away with it as well, considering they put out consistently well-made games. The fact that they chose the high road is a sign of more than simple greed.

[Xsng]

I wanted to add on to what I said, but since dark over there decided to move on to page 2...

Do you ever go up to your teacher and say, I promise it'll be done eventually, and when it's done it'll be amazing? Would you tell your boss that your paperwork will be filed eventually? No. A company on a much larger scale has it worse. Do you honestly think that all the non fanboys are really gonna stick around forever like you are? No. For most people, Valve is insignificant. When they realize that they aren't getting the most out of their money from them, that the company keeps delaying, they're gonna go move on to the next, sexier company that offers such things as quick updates, and more content.

Money's the root of all business. That's not to say a company can't genuinely care about the customer. Most other companies have proven that it is possible to completely rape the consumer and still get their love and obedience, and Valve could get away with it as well, considering they put out consistently well-made games. The fact that they chose the high road is a sign of more than simple greed.

Yes, Valve is much better than most companies about this, and they do care about their customers. But it's important to remember that what matters more to them is the success and survival of their company. Product quality is an important part of that, but quality alone isn't enough to ensure success.

[darkmessiah]

Xsng, that makes sense.

[Xsng]

Xsng, that makes sense.

Good to know dark. I feel like I often get lost in my own thoughts lol.

I'm not here to argue against Valve, but it bothers me that people often ignore half the story so that their favorite company will look good.

[The Lorax]

Teacher/student or employer/employee relationship does not equate to producer/consumer, but I see the point you're making. You should really keep the personal attacks to a minimum, since I'm far from a fanboy; the only Valve games I've even played are TF2, L4D, and Half-Life just recently. They have their shortcomings, sure, but if you're going to compare them to the rest of the gaming industry, they're leagues above the rest. Maybe they delay, but I am getting the full game plus even more for the original price I paid. Pretty much any other company has fallen into the practice of sending out half-finished products, then charging you even more a couple months later if you want the content you were originally promised. Maybe I am just insane, but I much prefer a great and affordable product every now and again to a cheap cash in every month.

[Jsquiggle]

Do you honestly think that all the non fanboys are really gonna stick around forever like you are?
I am not a fanboy, and I am NOT trying to start an argument, but I play Left 4 Dead because I love it.I will wait around not for Valve, but for myself, I enjoy playing the content that is available, and I will continue to enjoy the game as more content is released.

I hope you aren't assuming that anyone with patience is a fanboy.


Do you ever go up to your teacher and say, I promise it'll be done eventually, and when it's done it'll be amazing?
This is an amazing point, but it is different, they released the game as it was, we purchased it as it was, and I think that the extra content is a gift to us for being patient and playing their games.

I also think that the reason for not having all the content available at the start, is to ensure we play longer.Right when we all say that we just can't take BH or NM again, BOOM, new content.Who's to say the content hasn't long been completed?

[DaSciz]

Most other companies have proven that it is possible to completely rape the consumer and still get their love and obedience,

lol Nintendo.

[Xsng]

I also think that the reason for not having all the content available at the start, is to ensure we play longer.Right when we all say that we just can't take BH or NM again, BOOM, new content.Who's to say the content hasn't long been completed?
Maybe Bush blew up the WTC as well?

Anyways, sorry Lorax, I didn't mean for it to be an attack on you personally. I was just getting into it, maybe a bit too much. And I don't really go over what I've written even though I should.

But you have to remember, Valve isn't the only company out there that sells you games worth your money. As much as people can deny it now, games like Halo 3, COD 4, and GoW all got you to put time into them. They weren't perfect, but offered you as much, if not more, content than L4D does. (I like L4D much more than any other game, but this is just an example.)

[TekkenDevil]

What about the fact that they're not completely balanced and not all infected ladders are in place?

I played versus on DT on a special server a while ago, and jeez, I can see why they were taking so long. I had almost no vantage points as infected and it was annoying.

They didn't include the last two campaigns in the release, because they were still applying finishing touches on them. Now according to what you say, the last 2 campaigns have been in the works since sometime before the release date and are STILL being worked on? At least give SOME credit to Valve. They can't suck that much!

At least as far as the 360 DLC is concerned

They see me not carin'. They hatin'. I know in my heart that 360 shouldn't affect the PC.

[darkmessiah]

Double quote-owned!

[Jsquiggle]

Maybe Bush blew up the WTC as well?

At least you didn't completely shut down my idea.

As much as people can deny it now, games like Halo 3, COD 4, and GoW all got you to put time into them. They weren't perfect, but offered you as much, if not more, content than L4D does.

Agreed

[theliberator1]

I paid $100 while you guys were getting $50 deals? AWW HELL!!!!

to the people who complain, it could be worse, you could live in Australia, where we get the consoles first, but the games last. thats why im happy im a PC gamer :D

[theliberator1]

something that is interesting is that we already have fairly decent user created content. that should suffice until valve finish whatever needs to be done. should...

[TekkenDevil]

something that is interesting is that we already have fairly decent user created content. that should suffice until valve finish whatever needs to be done. should...

That's nice and all, but currently its damned complicated to add the custom content to your game. Skins & models take a little scripting to do, mps can't be played online without a shitload of hassle and so on.

BTW I hope for the sake of L4D, that playing custom maps will be as easy as starting the game up and downloading them from servers.
Valve talks about their games being custom content heaven, but that's mainly due to the fact that you gain infinite amount of maps just by starting up the server browser.

I hope they haven't forgotten this, and will implement something worthy to the mentally ill matchmaking system that there is currently.

[Keptron]

FIRE FIRE ! BANG BANG! Oh crap, wrong time to sing Rammstein.

People! Patience is a good shit, you must have to wait anyway. It would be worst if they weren't even releasing SDK :<

[The Lorax]

As much as people can deny it now, games like Halo 3, COD 4, and GoW all got you to put time into them. They weren't perfect, but offered you as much, if not more, content than L4D does.

This is true. My point though is that these games are few and far inbetween, and Valve still stands out as a paragon of the industry not only for providing a finished product, but offering patches to further refine the gameplay and giving additional free content on top of that. You can call it clever marketing to keep in the customers, but it's still a damn fine practice that puts them a notch above the typical &quot;let's milk 'em for every penny we can&quot; attitude of the current industry.

[Infest0125]

They weren't perfect, but offered you as much, if not more, content than L4D does. (I like L4D much more than any other game, but this is just an example.)

Quality over quantity.

[Xsng]

Quality over quantity.

Infest, it's really hard to not call you a fanboy.

Are you implying that only Valve makes games with any quality?

[XViper1534]

It's called competition. You honestly thing Valve cares about each and everyone one of you? That they make games for the warm and fuzzy feeling that they get when they look like the good guy? Bullshit. They make it for the money just like every other person in the world. Money is the root of their business.
What about Harmonix? Ever been on the site? If you have a broken instrument, they replace it for free! 500+ DLC!

[Infest0125]

Not that, but you said it has more content than Left 4 Dead does. Remember, just because something has more does not necessarily mean that it is better. CoD4 was a great game, but you can't really use the &quot;More content&quot; argument for every game, you know?

[Xsng]

CoD4 was a great game, but you can't really use the &quot;More content&quot; argument for every game, you know?


I was merely giving examples as to games that were good enough to make you play them, and they also contained more content than Left 4 Dead. I'm not saying that every game is better than L4D.

COD4 offered the same &quot;infinite replayability&quot; that L4D does with it's multi player. It also offers a legitimate single player experience for those that want it. Not counting the various modes of multiplayer available to those that play the game.

[XViper1534]

http://www.rockband.com/music/songs
Look at this.

[Infest0125]

I was merely giving examples as to games that were good enough to make you play them, and they also contained more content than Left 4 Dead. I'm not saying that every game is better than L4D.

Oh ok now I see your point.

COD4 offered the same &quot;infinite replayability&quot; that L4D does with it's multi player. It also offers a legitimate single player experience for those that want it. Not counting the various modes of multiplayer available to those that play the game.

Thats true..... But remember Left 4 Dead was never made for story or single player, although I can see how that really would've complemented it.

[Xsng]

Oh ok now I see your point.

Lol, I'm glad you do. I was getting quite frustrated from my Biology work, I don't know if I would have been able to give a reasonable response if you didn't understand.

[Infest0125]

Lol, I'm glad you do. I was getting quite frustrated from my Biology work, I don't know if I would have been able to give a reasonable response if you didn't understand.

Shit that reminds me I still have history.....

http://www.rockband.com/music/songs
Look at this.

Rock Band gets old after a while, but that is a damn good list of songs. May keep me playing for even longer.

[CrAnKeDHigH]

I don't think you understand the &quot;C&quot; part of DLC.

I know what the &quot;C&quot; means. In that statement, I was making a generalisation about the fact that the pc gets stuff WAY before the 360 for updates and patches. I know valve hasnt released DLC for the pc, but at least you pc guys have the recent patch. Where is it for the 360?