Tank Hiders

[gehn6]

I hate them. It's a cheap move. I also hate how just because CAL currently allows it, that teams use that as an excuse. It allows more infected to be in-play than should be. Yes I know that some cases there could be 5 infected at a time just from how the game is currently setup, but this allows a potential of 6.

I'm just angry right now because it just happened. We were playing against a group of people who don't declare themselves a team but for all purposes were and it was a lot of fun. They were winning by a few hundred points and I was having a great time watching how they play and trying to get my buds to learn from them. Then the tank comes. Now I can understand keeping the tank back from flames if need be. They just hurt! But purposely hiding the tank is just wrong (they hid it in the saferoom)

Not really looking for anyone to agree or disagree. Just fuming on how cheap it is.

[Avidan]

Anywhere that isn't in the safe room i think should be fair game, safe room is a little cheap.

[Redgoon23]

What do you do to hide it? Just have everyone lose control?

[3lite 3legance]

What do you do to hide it? Just have everyone lose control?
You have two chances to move him where ever you please with control of your own players, but after the second person loses control NPC takes over and activates when the survivors get close. It's not a smart move to place the tank unless you plan an attack, he will only go for the weakest survivor and will stay on him/her until he/she is dead.

[Redgoon23]

You have two chances to move him where ever you please with control of your own players, but after the second person loses control NPC takes over and activates when the survivors get close. It's not a smart move to place the tank unless you plan an attack, he will only go for the weakest survivor and will stay on him/her until he/she is dead.

Interesting..

Might have to try this tonight.

[Angry Flaming Tank]

I'v had a Tank in the safe room once, I opened the door and there it was, big angry and it killed our whole team
(we were playing on expert)

[SlowMotion]

Tank parking is a valid tactic, and if you can't be attentive enough to know there's a tank up ahead (preparing molotovs beforehand) then your whole team probably deserves to be wiped out - on the other hand though putting it right in the saferoom is excessively cheap.

[G_X]

It's called "parking," and it is the only damn tactical advantage the first Survivor team gets (if you could even call it that). Leave it alone; it's a tactic that works well in the game, requires thought, and helps the first Survivors. It rewards quick thinking and creates mindgames. Those are all good things.

[osamabinladenlostkid]

I hate them. It's a cheap move. I also hate how just because CAL currently allows it, that teams use that as an excuse. It allows more infected to be in-play than should be. Yes I know that some cases there could be 5 infected at a time just from how the game is currently setup, but this allows a potential of 6.

I'm just angry right now because it just happened. We were playing against a group of people who don't declare themselves a team but for all purposes were and it was a lot of fun. They were winning by a few hundred points and I was having a great time watching how they play and trying to get my buds to learn from them. Then the tank comes. Now I can understand keeping the tank back from flames if need be. They just hurt! But purposely hiding the tank is just wrong (they hid it in the saferoom)

Not really looking for anyone to agree or disagree. Just fuming on how cheap it is.

is called teamwork.

[Angry Flaming Tank]

Well, I think the AI Directer was having a bit of fun and placing four tanks throughout the entire game including the one in the safe room, at least we werent playing Versus

[SKAUGHT]

I was in a public game on No Mercy Finale. The AID gave us an extremely early tank, so we put him on the roof, the boomer went off. We somehow ended up with 4 hunters, a smoker, and a tank waiting on the roof. The survivors did not make it very far...

[Angry Flaming Tank]

wow, that game must have sucked, the Infected had fun tho I'll bet!

[Poodge]

hiding the tank is fair. If a team is well defended at a point no tank can reach them without sacrificing 19/20's of its health, then it is smart and fair to hide it ahead.

You have to realize that AI tanks suck, and are useless without infected help, so it balances itself out from a good tank attacking a bad position, or a bad tank attacking a good position.

[binge]

But purposely hiding the tank is just wrong (they hid it in the saferoom)
Just close the saferoom door and shoot through it

hiding the tank is fair. If a team is well defended at a point no tank can reach them without sacrificing 19/20's of its health, then it is smart and fair to hide it ahead.

Its not

You have 4 infected, when the tanks comes 5
! player looses control of the infected they were playing as, but now gains control of the tank
4players - 1 AI
Then the second player gains control of tank, first player now gains control of a new infected
4players - 3AI
Second player looses control of tank and gains control of other infected
4player - 5AI

So if you know how to park a tank, you get 9 special infected

Now tell me, IS THAT BALANCED ?

[PSOLaguna]

Id rather someone hid the tank in the safe room than freaking rage camping with it. Thats the total BS.

[UKMD Elmo]

Yeah me and the clan call it 'parking'. Useful tactic if the survivors are all holed up and ready with autoshotties. Also slows them down while you park it giving the rest of the team time to get a few more attacks out. Good strategy, if you have a team that can work together.

[PSOLaguna]

As far as Im concerned moving the tank to a better place and letting the AI take over is legit but not keeping control of a tank by beating on stuff. Since it was patched on PC, you cant say its a legit thing to do on 360.

[Small Little P00]

Now tell me, IS THAT BALANCED ?

http://www.theliberalnews.com/images/313_j0178833_baby_cry.jpg (http://www.theliberalnews.com/images/313_j0178833_baby_cry.jpg)

Thanks for the tip though.

[Stuffinator]

But purposely hiding the tank is just wrong (they hid it in the saferoom)
Just fuming on how cheap it is.
Anywhere that isn't in the safe room i think should be fair game, safe room is a little cheap.
Lol, just freaking close the door, before you enter and the tank is trapped! You can kill him easily from outside!

In my eyes parking is a valid strategy and has its advantages and disadvantages for both, infected and survivors!

Not everything is cheap, just because you don't know how to handle it!
So if you know how to park a tank, you get 9 special infected

Now tell me, IS THAT BALANCED ?
Bullshit, AI-infected act fast and don't wait for the players to park the tank, so the AI-infected probably dies before player 1 loses control of the tank!

[gehn6]

Tank parking is a valid tactic, and if you can't be attentive enough to know there's a tank up ahead (preparing molotovs beforehand) then your whole team probably deserves to be wiped out

Except for the fact that you molotov the tank, boomer booms you, hunters come after you, smoker comes after you.... oh wait. thats five infected. how did that happen? :P

It's called "parking," and it is the only damn tactical advantage the first Survivor team gets (if you could even call it that).

Wrong. the first Survivor team can use the tank wisely the correct way too if they are any good.

You have to realize that AI tanks suck, and are useless without infected help

I think everyone who uses this tactic DOES realize this, lol. So they prepare around the AI tank for it.

Bullshit, AI-infected act fast and don't wait for the players to park the tank, so the AI-infected probably dies before player 1 loses control of the tank!


That's just speculation. Besides, you still now have extra infected running around so wait for the AI infected to go after survivors and have your team do the same.

Anyone caught doing this on our servers will be warned from doing so and then banned. Like I said, it was really a shame too. We have a hard time finding groups to play against with similar skills and up until that point I was having a really good time.

[VanBradford]

You have 4 infected, when the tanks comes 5
! player looses control of the infected they were playing as, but now gains control of the tank
4players - 1 AI
Then the second player gains control of tank, first player now gains control of a new infected
4players - 3AI
Second player looses control of tank and gains control of other infected
4player - 5AI

So if you know how to park a tank, you get 9 special infected


Sounds unfair to me too, although I don't come to this conclusion. In my calculation there are only 4 players and 3 AI-controlled infected in the end of the procedure. Or explain what you calculated there...

[Stuffinator]

That's just speculation. Besides, you still now have extra infected running around so wait for the AI infected to go after survivors and have your team do the same.
It's no speculation! The AI heads straight to the survivors as soon as the player gains control of the tank! 5 AI-infected in vs, no way!
Anyone caught doing this on our servers will be warned from doing so and then banned. Like I said, it was really a shame too. We have a hard time finding groups to play against with similar skills and up until that point I was having a really good time.
So and next time you will banning players for using shotguns, because you can't handle them right? pretty poor!

it's easy to hear a tank, before you run straight into it and it's easy to kill an AI-tank!

ah whatever, play on your Left 4 Pussies server if you think it's sooo cheap -.-

[SlainPwner666]

My team always parks the tank on NM4, during the elevator part. Reason? Because bullshit survivors always get behind the elevator, which, by the way, is NOT cal approved. If a tank goes in there, most likely everyone has auto shotties, and he gets shredded. So, we usually park it around the witch spot. Ban me from your server if you want, but Im not gonna let you guys win simply because you get behind the elevator

[The Lorax]

AI tanks are easy to handle. That's why the only time parking a tank is really valid is when the survivors are just being dicks and are held up somewhere the tank has to crouch to get to them, or if they're armed to the teeth with molotovs.

[H4yd3n]

It's a perfectly fine tactic, stop bitching.

[DTard]

Pretty much the only cheap thing you can do with parking a tank is on BH finale: take the tank near the beginning.

[H4yd3n]

Pretty much the only cheap thing you can do with parking a tank is on BH finale: take the tank near the beginning.
Where do you park the tank on BH finale that it's cheap?

[DTard]

Where do you park the tank on BH finale that it's cheap?
To the beginning, the survivors can't get over the ledge at the beginning of the cornfield.

[H4yd3n]

To the beginning, the survivors can't get over the ledge at the beginning of the cornfield.
The survivors don't have to kill the tank on BH for the apc to come. Trust me, I tried it. :P

[gladbach]

Parking the tank is fine. I almost expect it when playing these days, and seldom have an issue as a survivor team handling it. You *know* its coming, and its easy to dispach as it will single out a player. Far easier to deal with than a human controlled tank. FAR EASIER imho.

The AI infected from the other team *will* go after the survivors, unless they are in an area that doesn't have any good paths set on the map. More often then not, I observe the AI infected just standing around, or going in circles... again, not a problem.

Personally, and I know the groups of people who play on our server agree, parking the tank is fine in plenty of circumstances, esp in situations like NM4 at the top of the elevator, etc. Being forced to be shredded is a far more dumb situation/rule.

Its like complaining of the 4 infected taking advantage of the witch? I honestly don't consider the residual AI infected an issue, what so ever. They are very easy to dispatch, esp because they sound off well before they get in striking distance.

[H4yd3n]

Actually the NM4 elevator is one of my favorite tank spawns. The silly survivors go into the vents and I pwn them with the tank. It's really not a bad spawn if you know how to use the tank. That being said, if you don't know what to do in the elevator with the tank, you should park it.

[gehn6]

it's easy to hear a tank, before you run straight into it and it's easy to kill an AI-tank!

Yes you can hear the tank, but you can hear him from pretty damn far away. In this instance he was in the saferoom of BH 3 and I could hear him standing around all the way at the tunnel.

ah whatever, play on your Left 4 Pussies server if you think it's sooo cheap -.-

Thanks, I will.

My team always parks the tank on NM4, during the elevator part. Reason? Because bullshit survivors always get behind the elevator, which, by the way, is NOT cal approved.

I agree, going into that area or hiding in ducks from the tank is cheap and we don't do it. Don't really give a flying fuck if it's CAL approved or not though, CAL rules are just made up by a bunch of regular joes like you and me. Don't know why people think what they decide is golden when they have no better reasons for their rules than I do with my no tank hiding rule on our servers. CAL is like following a religions rules/laws.

[SlainPwner666]

flying fuck
that would be rather hard.
What I mean is that I only park the tank when the survivors decide to be pussies and hide in a vent. Or if the tank is in a really bad spot

[Chr0n1c]

Tank parking: 100% valid tactic.

The AI tank sucks. In most situations, Skilled players would rather control the tank. However, one situation where any average survivor team has a landslide advantage is NM 4, after the elevator. Tank gets owned if they charge the elevator, especially in the vents behind the elevator, ESPECIALLY against a team that is all green health with auto-shotties, molitovs. Parking at least gives the infected team a viable CHANCE (not guarantee!!) at setting up a successful ambush against a skilled survivor team wheras normally the tank would get completely owned before laying a finger on a single survivor. I could see being upset if somehow using the tank parking tactic meant auto-win for the infected, but this is definately not the case.

As survivors, you are merely forced to adjust your strategy, not do the impossible.

There is a small concern with balance. As someone pointed out, the most infected you could ever have theoretically is 8, if you park the tank on a witch, and the other 2 AI infected (from players becoming the tank) don't charge the survivors BEFORE the tank is triggered (which NEVER happens). So in typical gameplay, we would see 5 infected (a rare witch would make 6).

EDIT:
CAL is like following a religions rules/laws.
Not true. CAL rules are geared towards creating as much balance in the game as possible. For this reason, many believe that abiding by those rules help to preserve a level of sportsmanship and fair play.

It is certainly not holy-grail, and we are all free to decide, as you are certainly entitled to prohibit tank parking on your server as an admin. But the CAL rules are worth noting, as their rules are made when the majority of that community is in agreement on something. That group is not unlike our forum community of 411-ers. You should not simply dismiss their opinions.

[H4yd3n]

Does nobody realise that if the survivors go into the vents in nm4 it's auto death for them? The tank can kill the survivors who are in the vents without having to go into the vents himself.

[SlainPwner666]

Orly?

[gehn6]

The AI tank sucks.

That supposed to mean something? It's still an extra infected and it's still a tank. It obviously doesn't suck enough for it to not be worth doing.

In most situations, Skilled players would rather control the tank.

So all the people who do this in CAL aren't considered skilled players? Sucks for you CAL people! Burn!

[Chr0n1c]

So all the people who do this in CAL aren't considered skilled players? Sucks for you CAL people! Burn!

Your logic is incorrect. My statement implied the exact opposite of what you inferred. Deciding on IF or WHEN you should park involves skill/communication. selecting a good location to park also involves skill.

This is how I look at it:

You get a tank, but you know if you charge in you are DEFINATELY going to be set on fire right away, and the survivors are in good health and camping spot where it will be difficult for your teammates to get at them (or for you to get at them for that matter). The survivors know this, and stay exactly where they are ON PURPOSE. I believe you should not be FORCED to suicide rush your tank.

You mentioned that you can understand losing control of the tank on purpose to avoid fire... what if two people avoid fire in a row, and BY YOUR RULES are forced to park the tank. Then what?

Sounds like you've completely made up your mind already and are completely resistant to any other opinions on the matter. How unfortunate.

[Bill_the_nonchalant]

Is it even possible to hide with a tank? I mean... look at him, the guy couldn't hide behind a car. I've never seen anyone hide with the tank befor so I don't know howanyone can pull this off. Besides, there are so many espects that can throw this hideing startegy off. Roaring, rumbling.

I havn't exactly read this whole thread put I just need to know how you can actually hide with a tank.

[gehn6]

Your statement implied none of that.

I believe you should not be FORCED to suicide rush your tank.

I believe you should. Both teams would have to do this. You can also try to get them to throw the molotovs to make them miss.

You mentioned that you can understand losing control of the tank on purpose to avoid fire... what if two people avoid fire in a row, and BY YOUR RULES are forced to park the tank.

By my rules? By my rules I would say you aren't forced to park the tank. By my rules I would say the second person would have to run in no matter what. The first person is the time to try to avoid getting the fire. I wasn't very descriptive in the flames part of my first post.

Sounds like you've completely made up your mind already and are completely resistant to any other opinions on the matter. How unfortunate.

I have made up my mind, for now. I'm not resistant to any other opinions, if I was I wouldn't have made the topic. Resistant on changing my opinion is a different story, but who wouldn't be resistant on changing their opinion on something? Just because you are resistant on your opinion doesn't mean you can't be swayed to change it.

What would be required to change my mind? Well thanks for asking. I would have to say the death of the infected the person who gets control of the tank would help that very much. At least one of them.

In reality though, the tank wasn't MADE to be parked. I mean, if the take was made to sit around and wait for the survivors to come running by, why did Valve create the "CONTROL" bar in the first place? Why is there a tip while loading maps saying that tanks shouldn't wait around for the survivors and just go?

That is all.

P.S. don't expect a response today, I only check the forums at work. I got better things to do at home like L4D. :)

[mazouth]

Finally a thread about tank parking.

Parking the tank is useful, especially when the tank player does not like playing the tank (happens), molotov barrier, failing boomer... or just for the fun of it.

It gives back a bit of randomness (from survivor point of view)
Also with an organised team, if you expect it, you better go for the 'hunt'

edit: for those who wonders, check youtube for tank + parking, you'll see what happens when the survivors (re-)trigger the AI tank.

Also, once a team parked it in the saferoom, the whole team (we were survivors) knew it was there, so I went alone inside to trigger it and make it run outside the safe, my team entered and I followed closing the door on the tank's noise. Use AI at your advantage.

[staveoffzombies]

My team always parks the tank on NM4, during the elevator part. Reason? Because bullshit survivors always get behind the elevator, which, by the way, is NOT cal approved. If a tank goes in there, most likely everyone has auto shotties, and he gets shredded. So, we usually park it around the witch spot. Ban me from your server if you want, but Im not gonna let you guys win simply because you get behind the elevator

Exactly. It really is the only viable tactic right now for that section of map. It takes the Tank AGES to squeeze through that tiny vent...more then enough time to get molotov'd and shotgunned to death.

[The Lorax]

The tank can kill the survivors who are in the vents without having to go into the vents himself.

I must be missing something, then.

I believe you should. Both teams would have to do this. You can also try to get them to throw the molotovs to make them miss.

I fail to even see the point of complaining about it if both teams are given a fair shot anyway. If one wants to rush in and stand the risk of being dominated, that's their choice. The other team shouldn't have to comply just because of their opponents' lack of coordination.

[Infest0125]

I think once the tank goes through two people and loses human control, it should continue to attack the survivors instead of wait to be activated.

[Avidan]

H4yd3n is talking about using a clipping exploit to be able to throw rocks/punch through the walls of the elevator, but also forgets if the team behind isn't crap you can just kill the Tank through the elevator walls.

[DTard]

The survivors don't have to kill the tank on BH for the apc to come. Trust me, I tried it. :P
The FIRST tank.

[G_X]

uoting: G_X
It's called "parking," and it is the only damn tactical advantage the first Survivor team gets (if you could even call it that).


Wrong. the first Survivor team can use the tank wisely the correct way too if they are any good.
So, if both teams can do it, how is it degenerate?

[Doctor Katz]

Trust me, i'm not a fan of this type of stuff, either, but if you have a tool, use it, it'd be stupid not to.

[l4drulez]

Parking the tank is perfectly acceptable. In almost all instances i've seen this done, and have done, is when you know the survivors are going to pull something cheap like hide under a staircase or hide behind the elevator. Tank spawning needs to go back to being random. One team always has the advantage over the other by knowing when the tank will spawn. It needs to be changed back. If that happens I guarantee you will see a lot LESS tank parking.

[blackjack452]

Interesting..

Might have to try this tonight

lol. it looks like your tank hiding rant actualy did a bit of advertising for the tactic

[Vindexus]

Tank parking is valid and not hard to beat. The extra infected you get aren't much of an issue because they suck but I don't think that's the point being made here. The point being made is that parking the AI tank gives you too many Infected (player and AI) and I agree with that. If you are becoming the tank the infected you're playing with should die.

Tank spawning needs to go back to being random. One team always has the advantage over the other by knowing when the tank will spawn. It needs to be changed back.

Random tanks is a bad idea. The first team should just be told/shown where the tank is going to be before the match starts. That way both teams have beforehand knowledge of where the tank will be.

[H4yd3n]

H4yd3n is talking about using a clipping exploit to be able to throw rocks/punch through the walls of the elevator, but also forgets if the team behind isn't crap you can just kill the Tank through the elevator walls.
Wrong, a point blank shotgun against a tank throwing rocks through the wall does hardly any damage, I've had my entire team waste all of their ammo into the wall where the tank is throwing rocks at us, and the tank still has easily 1/3 of his hp left. The elevator walls take up most of the damage. Hunting rifles go all the way through though, but hardly ever do all 4 carry hunting rifles.

[gladbach]

The assault rifles go through just fine as well.

[Cheeseliker]

Yeah, I tried hat as tank and got destroyed.

[JohnnyBoy]

doesn't the patch negate tank hiding now? or can they still bash objects like logs to keep the meter up?

[Poodge]

Anyone caught doing this on our servers will be warned from doing so and then banned. Like I said, it was really a shame too. We have a hard time finding groups to play against with similar skills and up until that point I was having a really good time.

wow what a little bitch

[Avidan]

I think i have come around on this subject, i can see how some people will use it and use it badly in most cases.
But i can think of a few good ambushes this could be used tactically very well.
I now agree that if you can't kill an AI tank ins VS you probably should go away.

[Stuffinator]

Yes you can hear the tank, but you can hear him from pretty damn far away. In this instance he was in the saferoom of BH 3 and I could hear him standing around all the way at the tunnel.
I don't know what sound system you have, but on my system it gets louder the closer the tank is! So I definitely can say where the tank is, because YOU CAN HEAR IT!!! If you hear the tank in the freaking Saferoom close the freaking door and shoot! You didn't even try it! You like banning people from your server just because they make the game more pretentious and harder for you?
I understand if people complain about closetcamping, because the infected can't do anything in such situations, but survivors still can do something against a parked tank! Where is the challange if you ban everything from your server what you don't like?
The tank can kill the survivors who are in the vents without having to go into the vents himself.
That would be exploiting, I know what you mean!

Nobody should be FORCED to do anything in a game! Games are for fun, players should be able to decide what they do and no one should be FORCED to f.e. commit suicide by charging into fullhealthautoshottyandmolotovsequiped survivors, just because the AI might take control of it!
Valve implemented this, so it's legit! Don't tell me it's some sort of bug, that the AI takes control of the tank, noooo, valve did this on purpose, so stop crying arround! You are just like battlefield or warrock-noobs who complain about players using vehicles on a vehicle map, and calling them "car noobs", how stupid is that?

[Comrade Nu]

The problem with the AI tank is that it doesn't move on after it knocks a survivor down... it just keeps bashing and bashing the incapacitated dude until he dies. If the three other survivors have auto-shotties and are good at taking out the other SI's that come after them they'll have the tank put down in no time.

[UKMD Elmo]

The AI tank sucks

It's a fair point. That dumb sod will run through fire just to get at the survivors. Literally...

[bluespherex]

Jo binge, how did u come to this conclusion, what is ure calculation, i dont get it? 9 special infeced, u really gotto show me that. because it aint true. Just with a quick thinking u get 7 special infected, tank included, at max, though if on.e AI BOt infected dies u loose one really quick.
U start with
4 spec inf---tank comes in
3 spec inf + tank+one bot inf=5 spec inf---tank looses control other one takes over
3 spec inf+tank+2 bot inf=6 spec inf---team looses complete control over tank
4 spec inf+tank bot+2bot inf=7 spec inf
i dont know how u get the 2 additional bots in ur calc. But u get at best 7 spec inf. But cmon, how many times have u seen 7 spec inf in ur inf team? comon is to have 5 inf and not more, if u have more then its just good luck and happens rarely. Also, if u get to play the inf team, u know ull get a tank, so u know u can wait and set it up right to have maximized inf pop. Why would it be unfair, both teams can do the same tactic and use it to their advantage.
Stop whining about how unfair the game is...its not, u get the same opportunity, dont u? so either u suck at the game and should just stop playing it, or start using legal tactics to ure own advantage,instead of whining how unfair it is.
I love it, id ont care if we loose or not as long as its chalenging as surv its fun. I would take 10 tanks 5 witches and a full horde of special infected, i would kill em till i cant go on. who cares. Its a zombie apocalypse, no time for bitching around and crying, get on it and smash their faces.

[Avidan]

i found a good play that benefits from the ai tank not moving
NM2, tank spawned and the team jumped down into the vents, 2 on either side of they could own him, i parked the tank just above the vents. When the ai took over and i respawned we waited out the bottom of the vents, two people jumped out into the stairs and the tank aggroed, went down into the vent and blocked the other two in the back of the vent.
Me and another hunter jumped the two left out, by the time they guys in the vent offed the tank we killed the two and where waiting for the next two to some running out.

[Morbid Bunny]

I've learned to get around parked Tanks, but when the last one just doesn't come and you can't find it anywhere (Finale on NM and BH), the fun is just wrung out of the game.

I would like to see a patch the prevents the Tank from spawning one step away from you and swatting you before you even have a chance to run though. Maybe a patch that causes the Tank to time out and die if it's parked for too long would work as well.

I state that last part because now and then the last Tank will flash that it's spawning and the player listed won't actually become the Tank. A timer patch would fix both problems.

[gehn6]

I don't know what sound system you have, but on my system it gets louder the closer the tank is!

Built-in HD Audio card. Logitech 5.1 400W speakers.

If you hear the tank in the freaking Saferoom close the freaking door and shoot! You didn't even try it!

Not sure what you are saying here. At the time of hearing him from the tunnel I didn't know he was in the safe room. I thought he was right around me since him grunting was the same loudness as any other time you know he is close by.

You like banning people from your server just because they make the game more pretentious and harder for you?

Didn't say that. I like banning people who would use the spectate to infected and back and forth bug, since our servers rules say don't.

Where is the challange if you ban everything from your server what you don't like?

From the people we do like? There's a lot of people out there.

Nobody should be FORCED to do anything in a game!

Noone is forced to do anything in this game, unless someone is forcing them to play the game or someone is forcing them to play on a specific server.

Valve implemented this, so it's legit! Don't tell me it's some sort of bug, that the AI takes control of the tank, noooo, valve did this on purpose, so stop crying arround!

I don't think you know what "Valve implemented this" actually means. Also, how do you know they did this on purpose? For all you know, they could be working on patching it right now. Unless you work for them or have heard from them about it, you don't know.

You are just like battlefield or warrock-noobs who complain about players using vehicles on a vehicle map, and calling them "car noobs", how stupid is that?

That is very stupid.

The point being made is that parking the AI tank gives you too many Infected (player and AI) and I agree with that. If you are becoming the tank the infected you're playing with should die.

I'm glad someone finally gets it.

[zilab]

(they hid it in the saferoom)
when a tank is hidden in the safe room, it's really quite easy to kill it. you just have to close the door on it really quick, and then have the whole team shoot it through the door as it is trying to get out. I've had tanks in the safe room before, and this method always works for me. although I'm too scared of messing it up, so my boyfriend always does it for me.

[foobar42]

Killing the infected you're controlling as you get handed the tank character isn't the way to go, either. What happens if randomness decides that the player controlling the boomer gets given the tank? The boomer dies, and the overall Infected team is gimped majorly.

Ofcourse, since things are random, the other team might lose a smoker, then boom on the survivors and easilly mop 'em up. Thus, killing the character a player is killing as he becomes tank isn't the way to go...

[Chr0n1c]

I'm glad someone finally gets it.
There is a small concern with balance... in typical gameplay, we would see 5 infected...
You should read more carefully.

Let's try to isolate the real issue here. It sounds like the only problem you really have with tank parking is that it allows for 5 infected to be in play. I do agree (see above), but I believe that it is merely an unfortunate side-effect from simply playing smart and avoiding tank-suicide situations.

If there were a patch that the 2nd player to become the tank (and lose control of it) were not allowed to spawn until after the tank was triggered (and killed), would you STILL feel that tank parking is cheap? Cause guess what? I would rather not spawn for a while and give the AI tank a reasonable chance for dealing damage if I knew that in a given situation, charging my tank would mean certain death without causing a reasonable level of damage and mayhem.

[Stuffinator]

Built-in HD Audio card. Logitech 5.1 400W speakers.
Not sure what you are saying here. At the time of hearing him from the tunnel I didn't know he was in the safe room. I thought he was right around me since him grunting was the same loudness as any other time you know he is close by.
Well on my sound system, I can tell if the tank is to the left, or to the right, because I can hear it! Thats why I always know if someones parking the tank in the saferoom! And as soon as I know that someone parks him, I go to the saferoom, close the door and kill him from outside, what's so hard to understand?Didn't say that. I like banning people who would use the spectate to infected and back and forth bug, since our servers rules say don't.
First of all, this was fixed with the last patch O.o
second is:
Anyone caught doing this on our servers will be warned from doing so and then banned.
so eh, you never said that?
Noone is forced to do anything in this game, unless someone is forcing them to play the game or someone is forcing them to play on a specific server.
Oh, I'm sorry, you don't want to force players with your strange server-rulez not to park the tank, I'm sorry!
I don't think you know what "Valve implemented this" actually means. Also, how do you know they did this on purpose? For all you know, they could be working on patching it right now. Unless you work for them or have heard from them about it, you don't know.
1. your thoughts are wrong!
2. how I know that they did this on purpose, eh well, because the AI takes control of the tank since beta, which you can see on beta-videos and nothing has changed until now and you can't tell me that valve might didn't recognize it! and because it's a damn good idea, because the player can decide "should I use the power of the tank and do an impact or should I better leave it for the AI and support it with my uberhunterskills? (or smoker or boomer, whatever)"
That is very stupid.
now you know what I think about your idea in banning players from your server, because they park the tank!
The point being made is that parking the AI tank gives you too many Infected (player and AI) and I agree with that. If you are becoming the tank the infected you're playing with should die.
I'm glad someone finally gets it.
The point is, that as soon as a tank spawns (no matter if it's AI or human) it should be harder and more pretentious for the survivors and easier for the infected. If the survivor team is full of health, equiped with t2-weapons and molotovs, it's not harder and pretentious anymore! So there must be another way to stress the survivors for a short time, f.e. in having more special infected! And btw. as soon as the tank is parked f.e. in the saferoom, there is no AI-tank anymore, which attacks with the other AI-infected and as soon as you get to the spot, where the tank is parked, there probably won't be any AI-special infected anymore!

and btw. parking the tank in the saferoom is a good way to punish speedrunners!

[gladbach]

Parking the tank is perfectly fine, and valid, hands down. Its not a big deal, and generally is a smart move. Like everything else in the game, it will depend on how good the team in question is.

Next you'll be banning puggers who don't play well with eachother for the first time, and don't act as a team.

I'm all for fair play, and not pulling D*ck strategies, but parking the tank is not one of them. However, thats really only because I prefer to not beat people so bad they rage quit, not because I think its an invalid strategy.

[gehn6]

First of all, this was fixed with the last patch O.o

Yes of course it was, it was just an example.

your thoughts are wrong!

Again, you don't know for sure.

Such hostility towards me! I've shown you no hostility. I'm sorry if i have offended you in some way. I figured people could discuss it here.

Meh, i'm done. I've made my point I think and i'm getting bored.

Great argument though!

[Stuffinator]

Again, you don't know for sure.
This
1. your thoughts are wrong!
was for
I don't think you know what "Valve implemented this" actually means.
But ok! And yes, I can't be 100% sure, but I can be less then 100% sure, like 90% and thats what I am!

I'm sorry if i have offended you in some way.
No you didn't, the reason why I'm so upset is because there are always players complaining on stuff in a game.
Like players complaining about corner camping, about players using vehicles on vehicle-maps (other games), about bunnyhopping back in the old cs-days, about camping at all!

But what did we learn from past games? Complaining about it doesn't effect anything! These days players know how to deal with bunnyhopper, campers and of course you should know how to deal with vehicles in games like battlefield or warrock (I still facepalm, when I get called a carnoob, just because they are to dumb to lay mines or take a freaking panzerfaust!). This thread has shown that there are several pro's and contra's (for both sides) in parking a tank, which means, that it's quite ok!

I accept your opinion and if you don't want to park a tank then it's ok, but banning people for doing this is not right in my opinion!

If you play against friends or a good organized team and you want a, lets say it from your point of view, fair competition, then talk to them and make the rulez clear before starting the game!

Yeah...again I wrote more then I planed before -.-

Whatever, have fun!

[Dr_Shakalu]

It's his server.

He can play whatever rules he wants as long as everyone playing is aware of them before the game starts.

If you don't like his rules GTFO of his server.

[Stuffinator]

It's his server.

He can play whatever rules he wants as long as everyone playing is aware of them before the game starts.

If you don't like his rules GTFO of his server.
I've made my point, no need to discuss it anymore, so gtfo yourself!

[blackjack452]

Oh, I'm sorry, you don't want to force players with your strange server-rulez not to park the tank, I'm sorry!
your not forced to do anything. if you dont like the way he runs his server then find a new one

[Stuffinator]

By randomly joining his server I'm forced to accept his rulez or to leave, both keeps me from playing l4d like I use to play it, so yes, I'm forced to do something!

[The Lorax]

it's not harder and pretentious anymore

Stop saying pretentious. You haven't used it correctly yet.

Such hostility towards me! I've shown you no hostility. I'm sorry if i have offended you in some way. I figured people could discuss it here.

I don't sense any abundance of hostility. People are simply disagreeing with you. It's the internet, you can guarantee that as soon as you state an opinion, 92% of the population are going to tell you to STFU.

[Stuffinator]

Stop saying pretentious. You haven't used it correctly yet.
it's the internet, there are no rules of correct spelling or gramar! as long as everyone knows what I mean it's fine!

[Keptron]

I lulz when someone do this, the tank is so fucking dumb that die fast if the others Infected don't act well. Always when someone of my team ( note: I always play in random game with high ping to screw everything, far country .. ) the tank die so fast ... It shouldn't be like this, there are some faggots who only run from Tank to this happen and kill it easily

Edit:
It's the internet, you can guarantee that as soon as you state an opinion, 92% of the population are going to tell you to STFU.

And this is a forum with rules and that should have at least answer with sense to the thread ( msg not directed to you )

[Keptron]

if you dont like the way he runs his server then find a new one
If the host is a jackass I yell "FU- YOU DAMN KID HOSTER" and rage quit. But to I leave the server insulting the guy must be really retarded and an abomination of noobish. Normally I just leave saying that the rules aren't any good.

Edit:
I hate when I forgot to edit the post and do double post like this. ¬¬

[gehn6]

WHAT NOW BITCHES! Tank parking fixed in the patch. "Valve intended it" my ass

[SlyOutplayed]

WHAT NOW BITCHES! Tank parking fixed in the patch. "Valve intended it" my ass

It also fixed the REASON people parked tanks, corner campers (now the tank can hit multiple no problemo) and people camping in vents (now can waddle through them without getting slowed to shit).

QED motherfucker, tank parkers got what they wanted.

[gehn6]

Except all the times ive ever seen people tank park, my team has never done any of those things.....

[SlyOutplayed]

I find that very hard to believe and see it as much more likely that your reply stems from me correcting you then actual experience, and there is a noticeable point which supports this.

Which is TWO people would have to decide to tank park, so that indicates you're playing against another team/clan. If this is the case and you are not closet/corner or vent camping then they would not waste a tank so dismissively, a team will know how to use a tank and will make the opportunity to use it even if it requires one loses control knowing that the AI will fail more then them even if they just run in.

If you are telling the truth, then you play (with a team) against public noobs, or noob clans. If you're team is not camping in a closet/corner/vent then a good team would of used the tank regardless. And publics would not both decide to tank park.

Theres no need to be a dick against tank parkers when Valve fixed both sides of the coin, the cause and result.

[OneKplus337]

Tank parking Fix'd!

[gehn6]

Nope, not lying. The reason why I started this topic actually was actually when a clan tank parked.

You do realize that teams use this even when people are not corner camping or in vents, right? Since CAL didn't exclude it, that is the reason why people say they use it.

If you read my previous posts I believe they show you the situation at the time. We were not corner camping at all and it was a CAL playing team against us. I wouldn't expect you to read it though.

And yes, I'll be a dick all i want. People were saying it was Valve intended and shit when they had no proof to show for it. I even said I wouldn't be surprised if they patched it to fix the problem and guess what, they did.

So yes, I'll be taking my small victory any way I want. :)

[SlyOutplayed]

I'm always amazed when people are suprised to find a tank in the safe room. If you haven't seen one for the last quarter of the map and know ones there i naturally assume it will be there, it's the logical assumption. Therefore person who can run runs up to the door and closes it. Job done.

The only part where tank hiding WASN'T cool imo was when it was hidden in the vents on NM4 before the horde, then they pushed it out just as the crescendo kicked into swing.

[maybe]

I'm glad the tank got fixed. It was my policy that if the tank music stopped, the tank was gone. If it wasn't gone (and of course it never was), I left the game.

[Stuffinator]

Edit: woops! lack of information!

[UKMD Elmo]

I'm always amazed when people are suprised to find a tank in the safe room. If you haven't seen one for the last quarter of the map and know ones there i naturally assume it will be there, it's the logical assumption. Therefore person who can run runs up to the door and closes it. Job done.

Yup, we expected that when the public team 'parked' it against us an a recent versus NM4 with my clan. We got to the saferoom, closed the door. And... nothing. No tank inside at all. All we could guess was some nubcake took control and accidentaly walked him off the bloody roof. Anyhow, 'tis fixed now.

[FearedAtheist]

Valve, fighting zombie injustice one exploit at a time.

[SlainPwner666]

I do believe you are currently talking about what is and what isn't allowed in CAL. Well, I would like to add my thoughts to this thread for the last time. There really isn't any reason to park, unless the survivors are in an area that puts the tank at a significant disadvantage, such as the vents in no mercy 2 and 4. These are both forbidden by CAL, as well as other "Tank Crouching" spots. I can think of multiple places on no mercy 4 that a skilled team can dodge the tank and run straight by it to the safe room. If the other team is so mentally retarded to park it IN the safe room, then they have no incentive to bitch when someone closes the door and kills it with no problem. All I am saying, is that there would be no need for patches and updates for exploits as long as people are mature enough to NOT use the exploits. Then, instead of fixes for glitches and exploits, Valve could put their dev team to work on DLC, the SDK, and New Maps. Instead, because people can't play legit, they have to delay the IMPORTANT updates and DLC, and spend more time and money fixing glitches and exploits. There is no reason to park a tank unless the survivors are being assholes

[Chr0n1c]

Nope, not lying. The reason why I started this topic actually was actually when a clan tank parked.

You do realize that teams use this even when people are not corner camping or in vents, right? Since CAL didn't exclude it, that is the reason why people say they use it.

If you read my previous posts I believe they show you the situation at the time. We were not corner camping at all and it was a CAL playing team against us. I wouldn't expect you to read it though.

And yes, I'll be a dick all i want. People were saying it was Valve intended and shit when they had no proof to show for it. I even said I wouldn't be surprised if they patched it to fix the problem and guess what, they did.

So yes, I'll be taking my small victory any way I want. :)

3 things:

1. You are hippocritical for gloating about the patch, based on your previous opinions and reactions to people lashing out at you for being an overzealous admin. If you can't take the heat you shouldn't dish it out. Your initial post was a strong opinion calling out everyone who parks tanks. Everyone who does/did it came to their own defense. You got offended at the comments made. Now you brag about the patch? pfft.

2. (and most importantly) This is not a 'victory' based on your arguments against why tank parking should be illegal/patched. The strongest argument you had against tank parking was entirely based upon the issue of balance where there could be more then 4 infected bosses in play at one time. Obviously if two players wait for the control meter to wear down, you still have > 4 infected in play. The math that applied before is still the EXACT same after the patch. 1ai tank + 2ai + 4 players = 7 possible infected bosses in play.

3. The only thing that changes is that the tank is still aggro'd regardless of where the 2nd player loses control. If both players don't want to attack a group of well-armed survivor campers, they still don't have to, and 2 molitovs are wasted while the tank lives on.

Get your facts straight.

[DangerWillRobinson]

It obviously wasn't a valid tactic (hence the patch), so I don't see what this butthurt is about.

[Chr0n1c]

My argument is that I don't give a shit if I can or cannot 'park' the tank. I refuse to rush the tank against green survivors if I know I'm going to get set on fire right away, resulting in wasted time flailing at them from a distance until I burn out instead of waiting for the right opportunity.

Tank parking evolved out of the competitive desire to keep the tank from getting auto-shredded without getting any real opportunity to cause some damage.

All the patch does is force the tank to keep the pressure on, making it harder (but not impossible) for the other infected players to setup an ambush around the ai tank. It is in every sense of the word a 'patch' rather then a 'solution'.

[DangerWillRobinson]

Well, I don't play competitively, so I guess I just don't see your guys' issue. I'm all good with the patch.

Also- take into consideration that you can now hit multiple survivors with one swipe, so rushing green corner-campers will end in them getting annihilated.

[Zorgy]

I don't do competitive but I have no problem with parking the tank. Although I'm fairly sure it will be patched so the ai tank runs straight for the surviors. I really doubt valve intended it to work the way it does now.

[Stuffinator]

It obviously wasn't a valid tactic (hence the patch), so I don't see what this butthurt is about.
Tactics aren't supposed to be "valid" or "invalid"!

Would love to see a nation calling a tactic used by another nation in a war "not valid" lol!

[DangerWillRobinson]

Would love to see a nation calling a tactic used by another nation in a war "not valid" lol!



It's called the geneva convention.

[Stuffinator]

It's called the geneva convention.
In a war, no "convention" can save you!

[DangerWillRobinson]

In a war, no "convention" can save you!



You obviously don't read much history, so I'm going to leave you with this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneva_Conventions

[darkmessiah]

You obviously don't read much history, so I'm going to leave you with this.
Should have left the guy feeling he accomplished something.

[DangerWillRobinson]

Should have left the guy feeling he accomplished something.


True, maybe next time I'll just leave the trolls to their trolling.

[Stuffinator]

You obviously don't read much history
omg! obviously you don't know what war is about! there are no freaking rulez! or tell me what hitler did!

True, maybe next time I'll just leave the trolls to their trolling.
lol this sentence makes you a troll!

[stungravy]

So much hate here. Can't we all just get along?

Anyway, regardless of it's "validness", I will always miss tank parking. It is an exploit that I never found myself on the wrong end of. Never again can I hide the tank in the elevator, or behind a crescendo event door.

Never again will I punch confused survivors through concrete walls.

Goodnight sweet prince.


Oh and also we managed to make it to page four before seeing Godwin's law in action.

[darkmessiah]

Why do I recognize that picture, stun.

[stungravy]

I don't even know where that picture's from, but I think I got it from 4chan like three years ago.

[maybe]

omg! obviously you don't know what war is about! there are no freaking rulez! or tell me what hitler did!
You have no fucking idea what you're talking about.

[Stuffinator]

You have no fucking idea what you're talking about.
Neither have you!

[maybe]

Neither have you!

Haha, what? You're telling me that no military in existence follows any rules or laws during war? I'd like to see some evidence to support this rather fascinating claim.

[Stuffinator]

Haha, what? You're telling me that no military in existence follows any rules or laws during war? I'd like to see some evidence to support this rather fascinating claim.
oh yeah they have their own rulez and follow them, but there are no general rulez every military follows! or again, explain me witch part of ww2 was within the rulez? hitler was responsible for a genocide! tell me what part of that was within any rule!

ah whatever! actually I was just trying to say that there are no valid or invalid tactics! tactics are tactics. just my opinion, don't maul me for it!

[DangerWillRobinson]

oh yeah they have their own rulez and follow them, but there are no general rulez every military follows! or again, explain me witch part of ww2 was within the rulez? hitler was responsible for a genocide! tell me what part of that was within any rule!


You're too ignorant to educate, just give it up, please.

[maybe]

oh yeah they have their own rulez and follow them, but there are no general rulez every military follows!
Geneva Convention.

<div class="quote">or again, explain me witch part of ww2 was within the rulez?</div>
Lots of militaries followed rules and laws. Even Germany.

[OneKplus337]

hitler was responsible for a genocide! tell me what part of that was within any rule!

Well I believe the fact that he 'broke rules' is why there was a war...and why he killed himself because he knew he was fucked.

You are a very close minded, opinionated person who doesn't know what they are talking about.

[Shrubberyjsc]

Oh and also we managed to make it to page four before seeing Godwin's law in action.

You are awesome.

I'm going to leave a link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law) for those like myself who were not, (or are not), aware of this law.

^.^